Andrew Patterson

Induction hobs with integrated ventilation - no reviews available on new models

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Hi, I've been offered a really good deal on a Siemens Ex875LX 34E hob with built in ventilation, but I can't find any reviews/comments from owners anywhere on it. Does anyone have one? Would you recommend it? I've also been looking at the Bora Basic, and Miele KMDA 7774 FL, but the price I've been offered on the Siemens is a real bargain, I'm wondering if there's a reason why! If anyone has any experience of the other two products I'd be interested to hear feedback as well.  I can find some reviews for the Bora Basic, but not really for the Siemens/Miele.

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We installed a Bora Basic in the Kitchen Island. I have been very impressed with its abilities so far. If you can get one at the right price they are definitely worth considering.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Stones said:

@Alphonsox is it ducted outside or recirculating?

 

 

It's recirculating - The island consists of two rows of 60cm units with a 15cm gap between them. The Bora vents into this gap. The air then flows down to floor level where it finally exits into the room via an oversized gap above the kick-boards on either side.

 

What I am now considering - following your recent thread  - is to mount an ozone generator behind the kick-boards to eliminate any residual smells before they get vented back into the room.

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28 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

What happens if you have a fire, does it suck the flames down into the kitchen unit?

 

Depends what's on fire - under the fan grill there is a "bucket/pan" type arrangement designed to capture liquids. The actual fan unit is offset from this and designed so liquids can't easily make their way to the air outlet. I think you would need a volatile vapour to ignite to get a flame all the way through.

 

I'll make sure I'm more careful than usual with the brandy for the Christmas pudding this year :)

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8 hours ago, Alphonsox said:

 

It's recirculating - The island consists of two rows of 60cm units with a 15cm gap between them. The Bora vents into this gap. The air then flows down to floor level where it finally exits into the room via an oversized gap above the kick-boards on either side.

 

What I am now considering - following your recent thread  - is to mount an ozone generator behind the kick-boards to eliminate any residual smells before they get vented back into the room.

 

From your description, that's a hell of a lot better than the installation I saw in a top end showroom. They had taken up virtually all of the unit underneath the hob with all the gubbins, part of the reason I didn't consider them (cost being the other factor).  

 

Will report back on the ozone generator asap.

 

 

 

 

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On 10/12/2017 at 19:33, Stones said:

 

From your description, that's a hell of a lot better than the installation I saw in a top end showroom. They had taken up virtually all of the unit underneath the hob with all the gubbins, part of the reason I didn't consider them (cost being the other factor).  

 

Will report back on the ozone generator asap.

 

 

 

 

 This would work with corian worktops generally as slab width isnt an issue. Becomes more of an issue with stone tops where slab widths can be restrictive and access harder.

 

I dont really rate the Siemens hobs. They are trying to jump onto this popular trend but the product is nowhere as good as some of the others out there and sales I believe are struggling.

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3 hours ago, ryder72 said:

I dont really rate the Siemens hobs. They are trying to jump onto this popular trend but the product is nowhere as good as some of the others out there and sales I believe are struggling.

 

We have one, and I'd agree with that assessment. I know they all balance power across the different zones as power increases, but even if there are just two zones on, one in particular will tend to pulse its power every couple of seconds. Annoying when you're trying to just heat something evenly. 

 

I don't have anything else to compare it to, but I'm also not convinced that the magnetic field distribution is that great, based on what I see at the bottom of our saucepans.

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My comment was more in regard to the Siemens induction air hobs with built in extraction.

 

A huge part of performance delivered by an induction hob is down to the quality of pans so this might be worth checking. I have found on Le Crueset, Ittala, and pans supplied by Siemens to be really good.

 

And the final comment about all BSH products generally is that they are very much in the mainstream market so while good, they arent brilliant at anything. In my own house I have the following-

 

Miele laundry and dishwashing. AEG used to be good, but not sure any more

Liebherr refrigeration. Nothing comes close.

Gutmann extraction with built in hob. Simply the best in the business, though Bora are good on their hob ventilation products. Not many products come close.

Gutmann hobs - are made by a specialist manufacturer who also make them for Gutmann, VZUG, Miele etc.

VZUG ovens - probably the best ones I have seen, thought I think Miele and BSH products are generally quite good.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, ryder72 said:

My comment was more in regard to the Siemens induction air hobs with built in extraction.

 

Ah, okay, thanks.

 

6 minutes ago, ryder72 said:

A huge part of performance delivered by an induction hob is down to the quality of pans so this might be worth checking. I have found on Le Crueset, Ittala, and pans supplied by Siemens to be really good.

 

Following our nightmare experience with John Lewis induction pans, we bought Le Crueset.

 

7 minutes ago, ryder72 said:

Miele laundry and dishwashing. AEG used to be good, but not sure any more

Liebherr refrigeration. Nothing comes close.

Gutmann extraction with built in hob. Simply the best in the business, though Bora are good on their hob ventilation products. Not many products come close.

Gutmann hobs - are made by a specialist manufacturer who also make them for Gutmann, VZUG, Miele etc.

VZUG ovens - probably the best ones I have seen, thought I think Miele and BSH products are generally quite good.

 

Just moved to Miele for washing machine - hugely impressed with it. You can just feel the quality.

 

AEG dryer - again, very good, and came with a 5 year warranty.

 

Siemens fridge - seems fine.

 

Hand-me-down 3 year old Miele freezer (which I believe is made by Liebherr) - again, seems fine.

 

Siemens hob and ovens. Hob not that impressive for the reasons above. Ovens seem good.

 

I did look at VZUG ovens (Swiss, I think?) but from memory they were a lot more expensive.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, jack said:

 

Ah, okay, thanks.

 

 

Following our nightmare experience with John Lewis induction pans, we bought Le Crueset.

 

 

Just moved to Miele for washing machine - hugely impressed with it. You can just feel the quality.

 

AEG dryer - again, very good, and came with a 5 year warranty.

 

Siemens fridge - seems fine.

 

Hand-me-down 3 year old Miele freezer (which I believe is made by Liebherr) - again, seems fine.

 

Siemens hob and ovens. Hob not that impressive for the reasons above. Ovens seem good.

 

I did look at VZUG ovens (Swiss, I think?) but from memory they were a lot more expensive.

 

 

 

AEG is hugely underrated for laundry. The fact that they share a lot of product with Zanussi, which is a mid-low brand is even more remarkable.

 

Siemens refrigeration is ok but when compared to the build quality on Liebherr, it is clearly not as good. More importantly Liebherr  isnt really much dearer than Siemens.

 

Miele refrigeration is made by Liebherr with a huge markup for the label. Not worth the markup IMO.

 

VZUG isnt cheap. Sits somewhere between Siemens and Miele. Fantastic value for money.

 

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2 hours ago, ryder72 said:

Miele refrigeration is made by Liebherr with a huge markup for the label. Not worth the markup IMO.

 

Agreed, which was why I was happy to take it for free from my parents in law when they got rid of it less than a year after moving into their new-build (they removed it to make room for a cupboard beside the fridge). Free is the best mark-up!

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Bora for me. Siemens etc are trying to jump on the bandwagon and I dont think they come close. 

 

 Would have liked Guttman but price prohibitive so gone for Bora as next best.

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bora with flexizones cant remember model I bought it months ago its in the warehouse. Cant remember the differential think it was about another £500 - £750. Hopeless I know I just recall I looked at Guttman thought it was nice was quoted somewhere early4’s for it and I looked at Bora liked that and it came in middle 3’s from memory.

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@ryder72, which Gutmann hob do you have if you don't mind me asking? I did look at them, although I've struggled to find much information.  The kicthen companies I've been dealing with all recommend Bora, but none of them have even mentioned Gutmann, maybe it's not that well known in the UK.

 

What has put me off a little is the cooking zones on the Gutmann hobs seem to be a max of 22cm.  A couple of my favourite pans are 24cm diameter, and I have a 26cm frying pan.  The Bora Basic BFIA model has a 23cm diameter heating zone which is closer.  The Siemens is 24cm. 

 

Maybe I'm worrying too much about a cm or two, but I love cooking and want things to work properly, and from what I understand of induction hobs (I have only had gas up until now), if the cooking zone isn't as big as the pan, there's likely to be cold sopts around the edges.  Do you use any large pans on your hob and if so, how do you find them?

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Andrew, I had gas previously before having an induction in rented house, lifelong gas fan would never go back now induction all the way for me.  The way around the pan size issue is flexi zones which in effect give you a large space covering 2 or more ‘rings’ and the area in between it fits itself to your pan. Quite amazing really.

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 Lizzie, the hob I'm looking at has the flexi zone which you are talking about, so I guess the larger pans would be covered on one axis, but not the other where I'd still be limited by the 22/23/24cm width depending on hob.  I suppose there's also a downside to this, in that if I'm using two pans >22/23/24cm then that's it, no more space for other pans! Before I came across the hobs with integrated ventilation I had been looking at the Neff T51T95X2 which has loads of cooking space.  But the advantages of integrated ventilation (I definitely want to duct externally, and due to the positioning of a beam in the ceiling, a ceiling mounted extractor would need a false ceiling.  And I read nothing but bad things about the downdraft options) just about outweigh the size, and number, of pans I can get onto the other hob.  I think.  Maybe.  Dilemmas! 

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I was in the same position with the layout of the truss meaning that if I wanted an external vent I had to do a dropped ceiling or pay £1500 upwards for a hob with the extraction kit built in. I ended up with a neff induction hob and have to say it's been great with 3 years use. There is no way I could justify the extra £1300+ for the Bora type hob. The dropped ceiling cost £50 approx. A sheet of MDF and some studding to make up a frame and fixings.

I know that even with the flap type air restrictors on the duct I will get some heat loss but I had a recirculating type in my last house and really didn't like it.

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Contrary to popular belief, induction doesn’t just heat the small section of the pan over the loop - conduction in the pan causes the pan to get hot too so the 23/24/25cm sizing won’t be an issue. 

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4 hours ago, Andrew Patterson said:

@ryder72, which Gutmann hob do you have if you don't mind me asking? I did look at them, although I've struggled to find much information.  The kicthen companies I've been dealing with all recommend Bora, but none of them have even mentioned Gutmann, maybe it's not that well known in the UK.

 

What has put me off a little is the cooking zones on the Gutmann hobs seem to be a max of 22cm.  A couple of my favourite pans are 24cm diameter, and I have a 26cm frying pan.  The Bora Basic BFIA model has a 23cm diameter heating zone which is closer.  The Siemens is 24cm. 

 

Maybe I'm worrying too much about a cm or two, but I love cooking and want things to work properly, and from what I understand of induction hobs (I have only had gas up until now), if the cooking zone isn't as big as the pan, there's likely to be cold sopts around the edges.  Do you use any large pans on your hob and if so, how do you find them?

I have a bespoke version comprising of 2 * 2 zone induction hobs , 2 extractors and 1 induction wok zone all for recirculation.

 

The most popular version is that 2 x 2 zone induction hobs and extractor.

 

Unlike Bora they are set in a frame so easier to install and look like a single unit.

 

The zone diameters only matter on circular zones and I dont think there is much lost if the zone isnt large enough. We havent started using the hob yet, but on a previous hob, a slightly under

sized zone didnt make any difference. Once the base was up to temperature it worked normally. With most flex zone hobs, cold spots cannot be avoided unless you go to the top end ones where they use a honeycomb shaped inductor rather than a circular one.

 

Gutmann is a more speciiaist product and they wont like to saturate the market so select their dealers very carefully.

 

 

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On 12/14/2017 at 14:28, ryder72 said:

I have a bespoke version comprising of 2 * 2 zone induction hobs , 2 extractors and 1 induction wok zone all for recirculation.

That sounds like an impressive, and probably very expensive setup!!  I have the space on our island, but I suspect not the budget!

 

Glad to hear a couple of people saying the slight differences in areas between pan diameters and induction sizes don't make much difference.  I think I'm leaning back towards the BORA Basic BFIA.  I found another thread on here earlier in the year suggesting this model may be over £3000.  More than I was hoping to spend, but given how much I love cooking it has to be right.  Does anyone happen to have any recent prices? I will see what our kitchen designer has to say tomorrow, but it would be useful to have a price for comparison!

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A Gutmann setup similar to the most popular Bora option will be similar money to Bora. 

 

Measured on a like for like basis, the Gutmann extractor should provide better performance. I like the build quality on the Gutmann and the fact that they are set in a single  frame.

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