ToughButterCup Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 I'm just about ready to put some garden steps in. I'm following the published guidelines for Accessible Garden Design. Context: Old - replaced hips - reasonably fit - tow ramp access to other house doors Spec: 1200 wide ( minimum) handrails risers 150 ish. tread (going) 700 or maybe a bit less but not much fall of (max) 1:50 on each tread step lights ( in the risers ) So far so good. But do I need to put in a ramp to one side? What have you done about that ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 You should. You'll find you always use it in preference and it allows for future proofing. It doesn't need to be a compliant wheelchair ramp, but that's up to you. A handrail too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 If you can build the ramp, then why build steps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 6 Author Share Posted November 6 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: If you can build the ramp, then why build steps. Oh Fer FooksSake.... 😑 I'm a Bear With A Very Small Brain. Thanks @Russell griffiths Edited November 6 by ToughButterCup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 38 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: If you can build the ramp, then why build steps Maybe it will be neat. It's an option. They could be stepping stones in the flower bed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 I guess it depends on how steep the ramp will be as slipping might be a proboem 🤷♂️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 we went for 1200mm wide steps, 150mm rise, 350mm going. split with a 1200mm landing every third step. three sets in total then transitioning to a ramp / path. forms part of exit from house via balcony so has to be BC compliant. Feels fine to walk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 Personally I don't like steps with a very long going, it is not natural and I end up making a very long step, or 2 little steps to ascend them. We are all used to internal stairs and their rise and going, so I like to stick to similar. Or at the most stretch them out to the longer going of commercial stairs, i.e. what we are all used to in a shopping centre. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 A vote from a ramp here. You can continue to enjoy your garden indefinitely then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 6 Author Share Posted November 6 Thanks everyone. Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blooda Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 22 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: If you can build the ramp, then why build steps. I lifted the Lawn Mower up 4 steps for 24 years at our previous house. It was imperative I wasn't doing it at our self build. Easier to design in from the start than to retrofit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 1 hour ago, Blooda said: I lifted the Lawn Mower up 4 steps for 24 years at our previous house. It was imperative I wasn't doing it at our self build. Easier to design in from the start than to retrofit. It astounded me when I bought my first house, a new small terrace house. It had a lawn front and back, but the only way to get a lawnmower between the 2 was to pick it up and carry it through the house. My first DIY job was put a gate in the back fence so I could wheel the lawnmower around the outside. Why are builders so stupid? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 28 minutes ago, ProDave said: Why are builders so stupid? They squeezed more houses in. It is normal for mid terraces to have no side passage. You bought it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 18 minutes ago, saveasteading said: They squeezed more houses in. It is normal for mid terraces to have no side passage. You bought it. I bought it at a time when prices were rising quicker than my wages, mid 80's. It was the only house in the county I could afford, literally and was nowhere near what I wanted and I had no intention of staying there any longer than I had to. In my case it was easy to put a gate in the back fence onto a public path and wheel the mower round. Most of the estate where gardens backed onto other gardens did not have that option. If nothing else that house confirmed what I did and did not like about houses. I can't say there was very much at all about that one that I liked other than it was cheap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 27 minutes ago, ProDave said: the only house in the county I could afford, literally The builder did you a service then, building a flawed house that wasn't highly desirable. A family member had a more extreme case, where a mid terrace had no front door and access through the neighbours' yard. Quirky, the agents called it. It was even less satisfactory than we had expected. We put a front door in (With PP). Sorted. It was v nice when sold on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 7 Author Share Posted November 7 4 hours ago, ProDave said: ... Why are builders so stupid? They do what the designers tell them. No female designer, or family orientated person would have made that usability error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 19 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: what the designers tell them. No. I've met the designer of a housing estate. A technician working to the developer's brief of units / acre. Mock Georgian combined with local styles. 4 modules and 3 sets of finishes to iterate. Having glaring mistakes pointed out didn't seem to break him out of the docile state. Then a more sales type person does some talking about heritage and stuff. Not Architecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 On 06/11/2024 at 09:35, saveasteading said: It doesn't need to be a compliant wheelchair ramp, but that's up to you. A handrail too. I've read up on the BR on this recently as it was relevant. a handrail is only needed is the ramp is steeper than 1:20 iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 (edited) 1:20 is quite noticeable i think. From observation, a person who prefers a ramp will like a rail. But as this is not through official channels, @ToughButterCup can decide later. Edited November 7 by saveasteading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 If using a ramp rather this steps then I would want a rough surface for shoe grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 17 minutes ago, joe90 said: If using a ramp rather this steps then I would want a rough surface for shoe grip. For our front door ramp we used decking planks with the inbuilt grip strips. 2 comments, very expensive, and they kill saw blades cutting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 I was thinking ridged concrete (an old neighbour of mine with a steep drive did this to good effect). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 8 minutes ago, joe90 said: thinking ridged concrete How about normal concrete with crushed stone, severely tamped to bring the fines up. Next day pressure hose or brush the surface to expose the stone. OR sprinkle grit on and tamp in . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 7 Author Share Posted November 7 28 minutes ago, saveasteading said: How about normal concrete with ... Normal is hard enough for me on my own. I can get some help, but it's only ever available when I'm knackered. Or it's too expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 @ToughButterCup Your guidelines in the first post seem to be about right. I'd only make the following comments. These are based on my experience with the charity Wheels for Wellbeing for whom I campaign in the public realm, who promote accessible wheeling and cycling. A few links below if you want to rabbit hole. I'm not sure whether your path is "to the front door" or "round and round the garden like a teddy bear". This is a bit related to both, also for future readers. - for widths, the maximum size mobility aid you (or your friends) are likely to be using is a Class III mobility scooter, which has a maximum width of 0.85m (these are the ones with lights that can do 8mph on the roads). The biggest of these are usually Trampers (the SUV of mobility scooters), which are the ones you see for borrowing at larger NT properties and are specced for 1 in 4 slopes in steepness or crossfall. - pay attention to outer turning radius if your path has curves in it. Outer turning circle probably wants to be ~4.5m ideally if you have corners. - A 1:50 slope is great if you can do it. Or for 1:20 you would want a flat "take a rest" bit every 10m or so. Consider a seating area to the side in case anyone might want a rest (especially if you have a steeper part) or to sit with a cuppa to admire the newts. If you do, leave a space next to the bench for anyone to park their mobility aid. The recommended path width dimension 'minimum gap' is usually 1.5m between posts in the public realms. But 1.2m sounds fine in general - 1.5m is needed for more unusual things like side-by-side tandems. For the path to my front door (which is over a concrete path) I did a perfectly good wheelchair ramp by using Wallbarn Adjustable Support Pedestals and Pressed Council Slabs. Wallbarn do things like Megapads to take heavy weights, and optional Universal Joints at the top that let it self-adjust to whatever your needed slope is. I did the 10m run to my front door and platform outside, for around £400 including hiring 2 friends for half a day who have more muscles than me (2018). It wouldn't take someone doing a drag race start on a Tramper - the pavers might shift, but it has been great for what I need. I don't think I've done a blog about this. Make it hose washable to clear debris, and avoid features that will catch accumulations of leaves etc - provide a gap so you can wash or sweep then off the path. On surface, you could do something like scatter pebbles and wash it back, or just score the surface with a trowel when half set. Lots of options. But at 1:50 you should not have a problem. Finally, give a bit of thought on recovery if someone falls over, especially in the circs that they may be alone in the house - that might be having 2 handrails so they can pull themselves up, as well as things like always having a phone to hand or a rape alarm to call the neighbours. Links: Wheels for Wellbeing design guidelines for 'Inclusive Cycle Parking' Sounds off topic, but has a lot of relevant info in a small doc. https://wheelsforwellbeing.org.uk/14-features-of-inclusive-cycle-parking/ Index to their resource sheets: https://wheelsforwellbeing.org.uk/our-campaigns/resources/ Tramper Mobility Scooter with dimensions and specs: https://4zn.f0c.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/tramper_brochure.pdf Public realm recommendations: Guide to LTN 1/20 https://wheelsforwellbeing.org.uk/wheels-for-wellbeing-guide-to-ltn1-20/ Govt Inclusive Mobility standard: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/61d32bb7d3bf7f1f72b5ffd2/inclusive-mobility-a-guide-to-best-practice-on-access-to-pedestrian-and-transport-infrastructure.pdf HTH Ferdinand 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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