Is there a trick to saving this situation?

 

I'm putting up a curtain rail, and found that behind the plasterboard there is brick.  I've drilled into the brick sufficiently deep enough for the supplied rawl plug to go into the hole.  But when driving the screw of the curtain rail fixing into the rawl plug, the rawl plug has started turning around!  When the curtain rail fixing is fully in the hole it's not rigidly firm.  And that's not good enough, is it.

 

The rawl plug has also sunk about a quarter inch into the hole. Because the rawl plug has got two butterfly wings on it I can't haul it out without wrecking the plaster around the hole.

 

Is there a trick for saving this situation, so that I will be able to screw into the role plug and achieve a tight fitting?

 

Thank you.

 

David.

 

Edited June 15, 20242 yr by David001

Bigger plug? So it's a tight fit.

Drive a couple of matchsticks (without the red bit 🤷‍♂️) into the hole in the rawlplugs and try again, 

44 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Bigger plug? So it's a tight fit.

@JohnMo, wouldn't that mean gripping the rawl plug with a screw and then hauling it out by force, even though the plug's 2 plastic wings will resist, and will wreck the plaster?

Put the drill back in and chew the rawl plug up. 
go and buy a bigger better quality plug. 
look at the fisher fixing ones. 

As @joe90 suggested would be my first go.  Plan B would be to put the screw in part way so you can pull the plug out using pliers on the screw, then start again.

The new Fischer ones are stunning. They are in TS or SF. I can't remember which.

Actual Rawl should work OK but of course the name is abused.

Matches do work, but  for a curtain it's best not.

Top tip to any reader.

 

Throw away the rubbish plastic plugs supplied with most things, curtain rods, light fittings, in fact anything intended to be fixed to brick, throw away the total rubbish usually supplied and use a good make of rawl plug instead.

 

And unless the screw head is going to be on show and is "nice" throw away the rubbish screws usually supplied, with heads that chew up easily, and use decent screws.

 

The rubbish fittings often supplied to save a few pence astounds me.

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Matches do work, but  for a curtain it's best not.

It wouldn't be my first choice, but out of interest, why not? If the screw bites, does it matter whether the plug is timber or plastic, or a combination of both?  The load will be vertical rather than trying pull the plug out wouldn't it?

I have found driving a match or matches or even a carved piece of wood into a loose rawlplug very effective and can give an even tighter fit than just a rawlplug at times specially if the hole is rough. 

>>> The new Fischer ones are stunning. They are in TS or SF

@saveasteading
 

I’m interested exactly which ones - the duopower, sx, ux, self drilling?

 

https://www.fischer.co.uk/en-gb/products/standard-fixings

Duopower. They distort to fill whatever space there happens to be, and then behind the surface like a butterfly fixing.

 

+1 for the duo. Foolproof.

16 hours ago, joe90 said:

Drive a couple of matchsticks (without the red bit 🤷‍♂️) into the hole in the rawlplugs and try again, 

I used to use the matchstick trick then saw someone on Instagram fold a small cable tie in half and push that into the plug instead. Works much better and you can "tweak" the size of the cable tie accordingly.

 

On another subject, another vote for the Fischer plugs - they're the only ones I use in both SX and Duo flavours.

I've been using the Fischer duoplugs today for the first time in earnest.  it was for fixing down a sole plate to old concrete. 

it went really well, and the grab of the screws was so good that it was difficult to get them out again. I was especially pleased where holes were slightly out of line, or had wandered off. Ihe plugs seem to adjust to whatever hole was available.

With traditional plugs I would have ruined a few and resorted to matchsticks.

I need some advice on studwork working single handed (no ceiling)...there has to be a trick.

6 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

need some advice on studwork working single handed (no ceiling)...there has to be a trick.

More info required 

3 minutes ago, joe90 said:

More info required 

ill do a new post.

Update: 2 curtain poles are now hanging perfectly horizontally on four fixings screwed into brick. 

 

Someone above mentioned "chewing up" a rawl plug in order to extract it from the hole.  Well, "chewing up" all four rawl plugs but then leaving the chewed-upness in the holes finally enabled me to put the screws in and achieve a very tight fit!  

 

Basically, what I ended up doing was splattering the inside of a hole running through brick with bits of the plastic rawl plug, all the plastic sufficiently held together, the destroyed rawl plug no longer turned in the hole, and the screw went in beautifully with a touch of KY jelly on the end of the screw.

 

I must remember this the next time I find myself having to fix something into brick.

 

Thanks for all the help, people.

On 15/06/2024 at 18:57, David001 said:

...

Is there a trick for saving this situation, so that I will be able to screw into the role plug and achieve a tight fitting?

...

 

Yes.

• Whittle / naggle / fettle / pare down / sharpen a piece of kindling to a long rough tube shape. The Scots call that a 'dook' (well my dad did anyway)
• Whack the dook in the hole with a hammer
• Whack it sideways with a hammer (dook breaks off)
• Drill a tiddly pilot hole in the dook
• Screw the screw

Cost? Zilch.

Reliability 100%

 

11 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

sharpen a piece of kindling to a long rough tube shape

That's the original rawplug from over a hundred years ago. It supposedly held half a ton.

As mentioned in another post, i did dooks yesterday, not knowing the term. Concrete column with empty bolt holes. Stick in the hole. Screw to stick.

Dook is seldom mentioned in my dictionary searches. Dook / Douk interchangeable with doul, ie dowel, perhaps.