Plumbing - push fit or copper?

[LeanTwo]

I'm about to start re-plumbing my kitchen in a new lean-to extension.  The existing property has copper plumbing throughout.  I'd be interested to hear views on the pros and cons of the plastic push fit system and the traditional copper system.  

 

 

I'm reasonably competent at most things and have achieved success with pre-soldered copper fittings before and it all has a sense of strength and permanence. The push-fit system, whilst being a little more expensive seems to be simpler to install.

 

Any views or experience of the two systems would be appreciated.

[Tennentslager]

Copper looks better if it's on *display* otherwise plastic is faster, easier and the modern stuff is bombproof.

Many on here like Hepworth fittings the best.

I've also used copper push fit like these, expensive but neat looking

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Tennentslager
Added copper push fit

[Dee J]

Plastic plumbing is excellent for retrofit on old properties. Long continuous runs can be threaded through existing structures. But... it moves a lot with temperature - so always allow for movement when installing. Copper is much better for neat compact plumbing under sinks and in cupboards. Pushfit copper works ok, but is expensive... soldered sub-assemblies can be put together on the bench then fitted in place with pushfit - a good compromise.

[Crofter]

The only moderately persuasive argument I've yet heard in favour of copper is that it's rodent-proof. Everything else points to plastic.

I think there are still plenty of old boys out there who learnt to plumb the 'proper' way who regard plastic as a cop-out.

[MikeSharp01]

10 minutes ago, Crofter said:

who learnt to plumb the 'proper' way

Proper must be lead, surely or, perhaps as the Romans did it with clay pipes and lead - time, me thinks, to move with the times. +1 on Where looks matter Copper is best I guess as the plastic connectors are bulky, the pipe never looks quite straight and you cannot polish it with BRASSO to make it shine.

[ProDave]

This question is a bit like "do you like marmite"? I am definitely a "copper" man.

[bassanclan]

I thought I was the only one on here not loving plastic plumbing, I must count up the cost of the copper pipe I have used!

[Nickfromwales]

Hepworth is undeniably good, and after @JSHarris's efforts to use copper originally, I had to chomp some humble pie and agree that for long continuous runs in a house with open web joists, plastic is an excellent solution and DIY friendly to boot. 

Copper where everything is on show, and where you need neat or complex junctions. 

I will be fitting copper and soldering my joints until they stop digging copper out of the ground, or they put me in it, whichever comes first 

[Roger440]

I remain unconvinced about the long term longevity of plastic and the reliance on seals in the joints.

 

Copper works, and pretty much lasts for ever.

[Jeremy Harris]

9 hours ago, Roger440 said:

I remain unconvinced about the long term longevity of plastic and the reliance on seals in the joints.

 

Copper works, and pretty much lasts for ever.

 

 

So was I, until I realised that all the underground pipe on the farm (and feeding pretty much every house built in the past 30 years or more) was plastic and used synthetic rubber seals, and it never seemed to fail.  Copper, on the other hand, has given me loads of trouble over the years, especially corrosion when it was fed through holes in granite walls, where it barely lasts a couple of years. 

 

If it's good enough, and reliable enough, to be used to supply water and electricity, buried under roads, it's good enough for me.  The big advantage in our new build was that with copper I would have had several completely inaccessible joints had I used copper, either in the floor/ceiling void or in the service void in the walls.  Leaks could remain undetected for a long time, particularly in the walls, and the damage done to the fabric of the house could have been massive, even for a small leak, over a period of time.  Plastic allowed for a layout with no joints at all that were inaccessible.  Every pipe joint in the house can be both seen and fixed if there is ever a problem.  The continuous runs of pipe in the ceiling and wall voids completely removed the possibility of having a leak in any of those areas (short of drilling a hole through a pipe by accident).

[LeanTwo]

Has anyone used the Polymax range?  I can get this from my local builder's merchant.  

[PeterW]

Errrr no...!! Hep2O all the way ..!

 

You May find Wickes and B&Q Tradepoint are cheaper to Hep2O currently with a discount card 

[Nickfromwales]

On 19/10/2017 at 07:41, JSHarris said:

Copper, on the other hand, has given me loads of trouble over the years, especially corrosion when it was fed through holes in granite walls, where it barely lasts a couple of years. 

In defence of copper, anywhere where copper pipe is sent through a masonry wall or concrete / cemented floor it should be protected sufficiently from coming into contact with its surroundings. 

Sleeving the pipe when going through walls and double wrapped in gaffs tape for floors is the norm for me, 

[Jeremy Harris]

2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

In defence of copper, anywhere where copper pipe is sent through a masonry wall or concrete / cemented floor it should be protected sufficiently from coming into contact with its surroundings. 

Sleeving the pipe when going through walls and double wrapped in gaffs tape for floors is the norm for me, 

 

Yes, I learned about drilling an oversize hole and lining it with a bit of plastic waste pipe a bit too late! 

 

I fitted a wood burning stove, with back boiler, to the second cottage we owned, in the late 80's.  I borrowed a Kango from work and spent an entire day drilling two holes around 30mm in diameter through about 2ft of granite, in order to take the 28mm pipes.  Two years later both pipes had corroded through..................

[Nickfromwales]

23 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

Yes, I learned about drilling an oversize hole and lining it with a bit of plastic waste pipe a bit too late! 

 

I fitted a wood burning stove, with back boiler, to the second cottage we owned, in the late 80's.  I borrowed a Kango from work and spent an entire day drilling two holes around 30mm in diameter through about 2ft of granite, in order to take the 28mm pipes.  Two years later both pipes had corroded through..................

Back in that era there was some VERY poor quality copper tube around, some very thin stuff with red ink markings along its length. Where it was in contact with mortar etc it literally perforated like a teabag and fell apart when you went to cut it. . 

[Tennentslager]

My old man was a plumber and told me in the 70s they used stainless steel in new builds because of a copper shortage. He didn't like it because the olives didn't bite as well and it split on the weld if frozen. He was old school though and thought plastic was the work of the ?