oranjeboom Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 So had my EPC survey done this week as part of the BUS grant application for the install of an ASHP. My last EPC was a "D" before renovations and extensions with oil boiler and rads. But not this time!! Now after spending ££££s on 3G windows and doors, 400mm of slab insulation, UFH, 400mm loft insulation, MVHR, 2x Sunamp units, low energy lighting, cavity insulation, solar PV, I get an "F" for "failure"! "I've done well over two thousand surveys to date and this result has been the hardest to comprehend." was the assessor's comment. All a bit ludicrous how some of the 'better' newbuilds up the road achieve a "B" when they probably perform much worse on heat loss I suspect. I believe the result all came down to the fact that I have 2 Willis heaters doing the UFH...deemed as inefficient as it was only enterable as an electric boiler. As for the Sunamps, again the software could not compute those. And it also does not cater for 3G doors! I bet if I was totally self-sufficient with PV it would still label the endeavor as a failure due to the fact that it's all electric!! Not looking to sell the house in the near future and assume I could get a new one done after the ASHP is installed...not that the rating bothers me. Well...I'll wait for when the EPC $hit gets replaced with the next improved $hit... Looking on the forum, be interesting to know how you achieved your rating @Russdl !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) EPCs are such a nonsense Ours is B 89 If we had added a couple of solar panels it would have taken up to 91 Lower A Or we could have just lied about having solar To get a converted A ⭐️😀 Edited April 26 by nod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADLIan Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 The SAP energy rating is based on energy cost - being all electric (resistance) for space & water heating looks to be part of the issue as it is the most expensive fuel option. Even lots of insulation, triple glazing etc, etc may not be enough to change the numbers significantly. Beware that MVHR if poorly designed and/or installed may use more energy than it saves! Did the surveyor use default values for the MVHR? I note the house is timber frame - the low thermal mass parameter may also be a factor. The efficiency of a new ASHP for space & water heating should help to improve the rating considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 A remember a former member who had done a lot of work to improve his house, when he came to sell it and needed an EPC he showed the assessor details and photographs of all the improvements he had made, and the assessor ignored it all just made the standard assumtions. I wonder where us self builders that got an A with a full SAP taking all the actual details into account will fair if in > 10 years time we need to renew the EPC for instance to sell the house. I bet that will be an RDSAP and come out much worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 2 hours ago, oranjeboom said: Looking on the forum, be interesting to know how you achieved your rating @Russdl !! Actually, that was a typo, we got an A104 not A103. I was surprised considering the Willis heater Sunamp combo and despite not holding these ratings in particularly high regard I couldn’t resist a brief moment of smug self satisfaction. 3 minutes ago, ProDave said: I wonder where us self builders that got an A with a full SAP taking all the actual details into account will fair if in > 10 years time we need to renew the EPC for instance to sell the house. I bet that will be an RDSAP and come out much worse? Indeed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) That’s mad, fully triple glazed is only good? Should be very good, etc etc. when I had my last EPC on a rental property I could not be there but some “assumed” things were very wrong , I found the assessor and challenged his rating which he changed on my insistence, so you can challenge the rating. Edited April 26 by joe90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 1 hour ago, ADLIan said: Did the surveyor use default values for the MVHR? I note the house is timber frame - the low thermal mass parameter may also be a factor. The efficiency of a new ASHP for space & water heating should help to improve the rating considerably. The extensions are SIPs 175mm walls, 200mm roof iirc. Again, no SIPs option so he went for timber. The older part of the bungalow is cavity filled. MVHR...no idea what default values he went for. 7 minutes ago, joe90 said: That’s mad, fully triple glazed is only good? Should be very good, etc etc. when I had my last EPC on a rental property I could not be there but some “assumed” things were very wrong , I found the assessor and challenged his rating which he changed on my insistence, so you can challenge the rating. Yes, he was friendly enough and took his time to look at all the options. But yeah, no idea why the 3G is just 'good'. Proper German windows too! May contact him to see why!! "Computer says...." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 21 minutes ago, ProDave said: wonder where us self builders that got an A with a full SAP taking all the actual details into account will fair if in > 10 years time we need to renew the EPC for instance to sell the house Could just cut and paste the old one, or more shite in shite out normal EPC. 2 hours ago, oranjeboom said: And it also does not cater for 3G doors They can manually input U values if you have the info to give them. But looks like you ask to see what assumptions they made and reject that one as F...... rubbish. Edited April 26 by JohnMo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 2 hours ago, ADLIan said: being all electric (resistance) for space & water heating looks to be part of the issue as it is the most expensive fuel option. We built an office and got a D rating, largely because ashp was a radical thing and rated badly in the epc programme 15 years ago. Because they were rated as if straight electric heating. Now the programme has caught up and the same building gets a B, even though no changes have been made. It was a thorough and professional rating. I am aware that others are sometimes available that give a nice rating for a fee, or accept erroneous statements without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 EPCs are a bit rubbish - but what do we expect for the fee? You can go back though and ask him to correct anything that's wrong and substitute real facts for 'assumed' facts. As you can see, you get penalised big time for electric heating and hot water. A bit dumb considering the government is trying to move everyone away from fossil fuels. But hey, you didn't expect those policies to be joined up did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 I have some small rental flats that are all electric. If we need to improve the ratings I think gas boilers would be the best bang for buck. @oranjeboom any how much more your electric has gone up since you went all electric? The ASHP should make quite a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Our house has lpg boiler for hot water and some radiators and electric storage heaters having two forms of heating is a penalty for the EPC but not much we can do about it, we’re off the gas grid in a listed property and the didn’t want us digging up too much. we’re an E but because we are so bad and off gas grid and low income (they discount savings) we might be getting a grant for some upgrades better storage heaters and solar hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 25 minutes ago, Susie said: we’re an E but because we are so bad and off gas grid and low income (they discount savings) we might be getting a grant for some upgrades better storage heaters and solar hopefully. What!!!!@@@ the EPC is related to income! Surely it's just based on what you have not what you can afford? (Although I appreciate that what we all have is related to what we can / could afford.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 minute ago, MikeSharp01 said: What!!!!@@@ the EPC is related to income No I think he means, piss poor EPC and low income, equals lots of freebies via grants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 2 minutes ago, JohnMo said: No I think he means, piss poor EPC and low income, equals lots of freebies via grants. Ah now I get it - sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Here’s my ‘Breakdown of property’s energy performance’ so @oranjeboom can compare. Clearly the Willis heater/Sunamp combo did us no favours but we obviously did ok on their score sheet all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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