No planning

[ProDave]

Okay so you are being hit by this clause: ?

 

 

If your side extension did NOT join the back of the garage, but left a very small gap (I see no floorplan reason that it must actually join the former garage) then it would be JUST a side extension and you would get the 10 metres you want.

[vik2001]

  On 04/03/2024 at 20:16, ProDave said:

Okay so you are being hit by this clause: ?

 

 

If your side extension did NOT join the back of the garage, but left a very small gap (I see no floorplan reason that it must actually join the former garage) then it would be JUST a side extension and you would get the 10 metres you want.

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Good idea. But I need the garage to become a 3rd bedroom and I need a new hallway created to enter into the garage bedroom.

How much would the gap need to be from the garage you referring to?

 

Here's the original floorplan not to scale. The toilet is to be removed creating a hallway into garage room aka bedroom

 

[ProDave]

I am just exploring ideas to overcome what appears to me to be a stupid rule.  Leave a gap (nothing to say how big the gap is) and it is a side extension only.  Dare to join it to the back of the garage and suddenly the 8M limit kicks in.

 

Stupid idea no 2:

 

Build a very small PD rear extension on the back of the old garage just enough to provide the new access passage.  Then adjacent, but not touching that build your side extension for the rest of the build.  Because it does not touch it is only a side extension and the silly 8M limit does not kick in.

[vik2001]

[ETC]

  On 04/03/2024 at 19:25, vik2001 said:

No they havnt

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If you’re less than 1m from your boundary they will.

[vik2001]

  On 04/03/2024 at 21:09, ETC said:

If you’re less than 1m from your boundary they will.

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What would they say? Is it about the size of window or glass being obscured?

[ETC]

  On 04/03/2024 at 21:10, vik2001 said:

What would they say? Is it about the size of window or glass being obscured?

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How far is your boundary from your windows and how big are your windows?

[vik2001]

  On 04/03/2024 at 21:40, ETC said:

How far is your boundary from your windows and how big are your windows?

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I'm about 1100mm from the boundary.

Window is 1500mm wide and 1200mm tall

[BigBub]

Just to make it clear, what you are building is a side extension, unless the garage is an original part of the house or was there before 1948 in which case it would be treated as a rear extension. Planning permission is required for what you are building for two reasons:

 

1. The extension joins on to the existing garage that is to be converted and as the garage extends out beyond the principle elevation of the house, it does not meet PD rules.
2. As the side extension is within 2m of the boundary, the height of the roof eaves is limited to 3m under PD.

Edited March 5, 2024 by BigBub

[kandgmitchell]

  On 05/03/2024 at 03:24, vik2001 said:

I'm about 1100mm from the boundary.

Window is 1500mm wide and 1200mm tall

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But above you said you were 500 - 600mm away from the boundary, the plans and photo seem to confirm this. If so then under the Building Regs you will be limited to 1m2 of unprotected area (i.e ordinary window) which would affect what you propose.

[vik2001]

  On 05/03/2024 at 09:47, kandgmitchell said:

But above you said you were 500 - 600mm away from the boundary, the plans and photo seem to confirm this. If so then under the Building Regs you will be limited to 1m2 of unprotected area (i.e ordinary window) which would affect what you propose.

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OK so not to have a window larger than 1m2

Now hoping planning goes through. Its been submitted

[TerryE]

The LPA might be willing to issue a Certificate of Lawful Development in which case the issue is solved and you've got no worries.   IMO, what you need is to establish a constructive dialogue with your LPA planning dept. sooner rather than later.  You might need to get your case together first.  A local planning consultant might help if you are worried about approaching the LPA. (These firms are often staffed by ex-planners who have gone private because the money is better.)

[ToughButterCup]

  On 05/03/2024 at 11:12, TerryE said:

... (These firms are often staffed by ex-planners who have gone private because the money is better.)

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Excellent advice and exactly why we got planning permission in the first place. 

[NailBiter]

  On 04/03/2024 at 20:01, vik2001 said:

@ProDave Even then I'm only allowed to extend out in length by 4m in a detached house. Hence why i have gone for full planning pernission.

 

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See my comment above about the larger homes scheme, it is another option open to you and is distinct from full planning permission.

 

 

  On 04/03/2024 at 20:01, vik2001 said:

If I have to go back slightly in length from 10m to 9m, or even 8m because planners don't approve, will they make me submit a new application or will they amend this original application???

 

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Theoretically the planning process is supposed to be collaborative, that means they are supposed to work with you to pass something if possible. That doesn't always happen in practice with planning officers being so busy.

You will get a "free go" if they refuse the permission and you reapply with a similar planning permission. It is not really in their interests to do more work for free. If you engage with the planning officer nicely you may find them helpful or they might just not call you back.

We had a weird one on a previous build we did where the planning officer actually insisted we made the extension bigger and put a dormer in!
 

Edited March 5, 2024 by NailBiter

[kandgmitchell]

I think the latest changes to the fee system has taken away the "free go" arrangement.

[vik2001]

OK guys. I need to have a backup plan incase planning does not go through for this extension.

As I've laid the block and beam floor what can I do. Can I still build all the way back from the garage up to the kitchen (excluding the living room so I'm less than 8 metres on the side extension). I know this won't come under permitted development because I'm not within 2 metres of the boundary, but will it fall under the larger home extensions for detached house? Or does that only apply for rear extensions and not side.

Edited March 5, 2024 by vik2001

[joe90]

  On 05/03/2024 at 11:12, TerryE said:

The LPA might be willing to issue a Certificate of Lawful Development in which case the issue is solved and you've got no worries.   IMO, what you need is to establish a constructive dialogue with your LPA planning dept. sooner rather than later.  You might need to get your case together first.  A local planning consultant might help if you are worried about approaching the LPA. (These firms are often staffed by ex-planners who have gone private because the money is better.)

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+1, do this first then you know exactly where you stand and what they will allow.

[Alan Ambrose]

The flip side, I think, of the ‘no free go’ is a fee refund if not decided before 16 weeks (that’s for non-major rather than householder). We have yet to see how that works in practice but ‘revenue impact’ tends to be a motivator for most organisations.

[vik2001]

  On 05/03/2024 at 17:38, joe90 said:

+1, do this first then you know exactly where you stand and what they will allow.

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the architect submitted the planning permission application this week. As only the foundation has been laid and no brickwork above ground level has commenced.

If the certificate of lawfulness got rejected because it wasn't in scope I would have to apply for planning permission after causing further delay.

If I started to build above ground level then the certificate route would make sense

Edited March 5, 2024 by vik2001

[vik2001]

When they refer to the 2m boundary , do they mean up to the fence or thr neighbours house wall on the other side of fence.

Builder assumes is up to the neighbours wall in other side which is 2.8m away

[kandgmitchell]

Boundary means boundary of your ownership, the curtilage of your plot, the bit that you control. Not sure why the builder would think boundary meant the side wall of a building situated on someone elses property. 

[DevilDamo]

  On 04/03/2024 at 20:16, ProDave said:

If your side extension did NOT join the back of the garage, but left a very small gap (I see no floorplan reason that it must actually join the former garage) then it would be JUST a side extension and you would get the 10 metres you want.

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Incorrect. An extension that is positioned to infill area bounded by a side wall and rear wall (attached or not) would need to meet the PD requirements for a side and rear extension. The OP fails to meet the PD criteria so whoever advised them that the works are not PD is correct.

[DevilDamo]

  On 05/03/2024 at 09:40, BigBub said:

as the garage extends out beyond the principle elevation of the house, it does not meet PD rules.

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Where have you seen it extends beyond the wall, which is considered a principle elevation?

[DevilDamo]

  On 05/03/2024 at 11:12, TerryE said:

The LPA might be willing to issue a Certificate of Lawful Development in which case the issue is solved and you've got no worries.

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No help to the OP as the proposals require Planning.

[DevilDamo]

  On 05/03/2024 at 11:36, NailBiter said:

See my comment above about the larger homes scheme, it is another option open to you and is distinct from full planning permission.

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Not an option as the extension would need to be limited to 8m. The OP requires Planning.