Alarm Cable First Fix - Yes or No

[Barney12]

Hi All

 

My last first fix job is to run some 8core alarm cables to room corners, keypad locations etc. BUT, chatting to my sparky this week he said that it's now almost never done as the wireless systems have become so reliable. He said the only real need is a feed to the bell box and a fused spur for the control panel.

 

I was just interested what others have done? 

[nod]

Hi

im just at that stage now

The alarm guy I've used for years 

said pretty much the same 

Wireless has come on massively over the last few years But for the sake of an hours work and a real of cable he would still hard wire

[jack]

Wireless of all forms has improved continuously over the years, but you can't beat properly installed physical wiring.

 

Personally, I'd hard wire given the marginal additional cost and effort (possibly the more expensive wireless components would make up the difference anyway)

[readiescards]

Any wireless alarm system recommendations?

[joe90]

Well, apart from a "false" external alarm box I am not bothering with an alarm system. I know I am a Luddite but our new location is far from the madding crowd and on speaking to locals burgalry is virtually unheard of. Our doors and windows are the latest design with ref to being " secure by design" ( plus we have a dog and planning to keep geese!!!).

[Jeremy Harris]

I'd hard wire, too, for two reasons.

 

Firstly, there are only a very limited number of licence-free wireless bands, and WiFi and things like wireless thermostats, car remotes, remote light switch systems etc are using up all that bandwidth very rapidly.  As an example, my garage door has two wireless links, one for the remote, one for the door sensor, both operating in the 868 MHz band.  My car remote locking, continuously transmitting transponder sensing (for the keyless entry) and the remote air conditioning controls in the car also work in the same 868 MHz band.  The excess PV diverter box has yet another 868 MHz transmission, to control the remote power switch.  The wireless thermostats use two data links operating in the same 868 MHz band.

 

The kitchen lights use a couple of wireless links that operate in the 433 MHz band.  The CCTV alarm also has a data link that operates in the 433 MHz band.  The indoor energy display also works in the 433 MHz band.   The door bell also works in the 433 MHz band.

 

The CCTV video transmission works in the 5.8 MHz band, and the WiFi works on both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz.  We have two separate WiFi networks in the house, one dedicated to CCTV.

 

Locally, when scanning around every single spot frequency in the 2.4 GHz band has traffic on it, from all our neighbours WiFi systems.  The 433 MHz band is a nightmare, with literally hundreds of signals, some very intermittent, like remote light switches, some regular, like the weather station one of our neighbours has set up in their garden.  The 868 MHz band is a little bit better, that's mainly just sporadic car remote control signals.  The 5 GHz WiFi band is getting quite congested, not as bad as 2.4 GHz yet, but getting there.  My guess is that this is due to the gradual spread of dual band WiFi.

 

Secondly, any wireless connection, no matter how robust, is subject to jamming or hacking.  It is just about impossible to prevent a determined person from interfering with a wireless system.  Even very secure, rolling code, car security systems can be very easily hacked - witness the increasing number of car thefts from homes where transponder amplifier boxes bought cheaply from the internet have been used to unlock and start keyless entry cars and drive them away.

 

For me, I would use wireless only where there is absolutely no practical alternative, but would choose to use a wired system when it's easy to install, such as during a new build.  The reason the installers like wireless systems is that they are a LOT less work to install, so less hassle for them, and less time on the job.

Edited September 29, 2017 by JSHarris
typo

[Guest Alphonsox]

29 minutes ago, readiescards said:

Any wireless alarm system recommendations?

 

The best I've found so far is the Texecom Ricochet system. It operates in the 868Mhz band using a mesh network to route around problems. By all accounts its a robust implementation.

[ragg987]

I use a Texecom Premier hard-wired system. Extremely flexible but steep learning curve. I have integrated fire and heat detectors and front door bell into the panel, if you wanted to you can also control any electrical loads with a few add-ons e.g. lights on when dark or on movement.

 

Wireless means having to replace batteries on all devices on a regular basis (Texecom claim every 4 years for their Lithium battery) - not worth it in my view.

[dogman]

Just bought my system

As ragg987 its a Texecom Premier elite. If you want to be able to receive alerts there is no cost unlike some that charge a fee.

if you want an App for your phone i think its a couple of quid rather than 30-40 quid

Got mine from CCTVcentral, Latest model, fully upgradable if you want to go wireless

[Jeremy Harris]

12 minutes ago, ragg987 said:

Wireless means having to replace batteries on all devices on a regular basis (Texecom claim every 4 years for their Lithium battery) - not worth it in my view.

 

Doesn't it just!  The safety edge and door closed sensor on the bottom of our garage door uses an 868 MHz transmitter,  powered by two very expensive and relatively hard to find lithium batteries.  These last about a year and a half before needing replacement.  The cells are around £3 each, so about £6 every year and a half, just to keep the garage door working (it locks out when the safety edge batteries go flat, and has to be manually operated, which is a real pain).  The batteries go flat even if the door isn't used, as the transmitter is on all the time, it seems.

[Dudda]

Just curious with the 8 core alarm cable Barney mentioned. I've just started fitting electrical back boxes and will start pulling cables soon and going to wire for a future alarm. I was going to use Cat 6 cable as I can then use PoE CCTV cameras with motion detect which trigger an alarm rather than a alarm PIR. Was also going to run a Cat6 to the alarm control panel keypad location. Is this right to future proof myself or should I be using an alarm cable. What's the best to put in now?

[Nickfromwales]

Hard wired all the way. 

I integrated my wired alarm system with my outside lighting, to operate when the alarm was triggered, connected to the strobe output. So after the alarm silenced itself the outside of the property still stayed floodlit.

I fitted remote switches in the rear bedrooms, gleaned from spare pairs in the cables doing the window magnets, so SWMBO could flick the outside lights on without shutting the alarm off and going downstairs. 

With hard wired it can be made quite bespoke, 

A battery powered security system just doesn't appeal to me at all. Far more choice of sensors and end equipment with wired.  

[Nickfromwales]

Just now, Dudda said:

Just curious with the 8 core alarm cable Barney mentioned. I've just started fitting electrical back boxes and will start pulling cables soon and going to wire for a future alarm. I was going to use Cat 6 cable as I can then use PoE CCTV cameras with motion detect which trigger an alarm rather than a alarm PIR. Was also going to run a Cat6 to the alarm control panel keypad location. Is this right to future proof myself or should I be using an alarm cable. What's the best to put in now?

Your not supposed to use solid core cable for alarms as it's not considered reliable enough. Stranded has less chance of snapping and is FAR more forgiving when trying to make off 6 cores in the back of a little pir / remote keypad ( RKP ). . 

I don't think you'll get a NARCOSS ( iirc ) certificate with solid core cable either. 

[Dudda]

11 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Your not supposed to use solid core cable for alarms as it's not considered reliable enough. Stranded has less chance of snapping and is FAR more forgiving when trying to make off 6 cores in the back of a little pir / remote keypad ( RKP ). . 

I don't think you'll get a NARCOSS ( iirc ) certificate with solid core cable either. 

Interesting, thanks. That's great as it's cheaper. It's not often on this job I get a saving. So an 8 to be safe or 6 core stranded alarm cable? 

Edited September 29, 2017 by Dudda

[ragg987]

Cores depend on the standard you want to use - 2 cores are required for the simple on/off and 3 cores if you want to make it tamper proof and 4 cores if you want EOL capability. You may also want to piggy-back 2 or more devices to one cable e.g. 8 cores can support up to 2 or 3 separate devices on one run.

 

The cost difference is negligible.

[Nickfromwales]

Always run too many cores. 8 for anything needing 6 and 6 for anything needing 4 or 2. 

Try and avoid running 8 to door magnetics or break glass sensors as there really is next to no room whatsoever in them. . 

[Dudda]

Thanks guys. Spent 20 minutes looking at the Texecom website recommended a few times above. My brain is not in the right state of mind to start deciphering all the options and combinations right now so I'll park that decision and just pull the cables as you've suggested for now. Sorry Barney for hijacking the thread but I'm in the same position.

[Barney12]

1 minute ago, Dudda said:

Thanks guys. Spent 20 minutes looking at the Texecom website recommended a few times above. My brain is not in the right state of mind to start deciphering all the options and combinations right now so I'll park that decision and just pull the cables as you've suggested for now. Sorry Barney for hijacking the thread but I'm in the same position.

 

No problem. These types of threads always spark good questions and debate. Its all positive. 

[daiking]

Can you mix and match wireless and hardwired?

 

I ask as our house originally had a hard wired alarm but it 's not working. There are 4 existing PIRs in the house feeding back to a main panel. I just assumed that the wiring could be re-used? It must be 6-8 core. We ripped the keypad off the wall and chopped that wire off so it will need a new one from the panel.

 

But obviously the house is much bigger now and will need more sensors but we neglected to fit any extra wiring at the time. It wouldn't have been 'easy' any way.

[dogman]

@daiking

The Texecom will mix if you get the premier elite.  You can fit a wireless communicator and use both 

 

[dogman]

Wired in my bellboy today.  It needs 8 core 

[Temp]

We have a Visonic wireless alarm system using just PIR sensors, no window/door switches. The battery life of the PIR sensors is very good and even better if you turn off the LED that's on them. Not had a false alarm but then we don't have dogs/cats.  

 

The main decision you need to make concerns monitoring. I think the vast majority of monitoring companies insist on installing the alarm as well.

 

 

[dogman]

When i was looking at what was available my main decision was some sort of notification direct to my mobile 

 

i initially looked at a Pyronix system but hidden in their small print was an annual charge to use notifications.

 

With the Texecom premier elite kit i bought i got a comms unit that connects to your phone line. You enter your mobile number and it sends you a text when activated( plus other events)

 

You can add a voice module as well

[readiescards]

Texecom Premier: 

* does it have Android app?

* what is the power consumption?

[Ferdinand]

Just to add our experience ... we had a request for an alarm to be fitted in a student house a couple of years ago.

 

Comfort, our agent who manage a lot of properties, recommended wireless sensors as that was their normal usage and had been problem-free. It has been fine and was relatively inexpensive - low hundreds. This was fitted just to the downstairs - mainly as a deterrent and because it was all female that year, and because there are a couple of windows into the kitchen-diner from the front forecourt.

 

At home we are hard-wired, but that was fitted before we arrived.

 

Ferdinand

Edited October 9, 2017 by Ferdinand