Which internal doors have to be fire doors? if any

[Post and beam]

For our new build i am trying to understand which doors if any are required to be fire rated.

[nod]

The door between the house and your internal garage The rest are fine unless your over three floors 

[Conor]

We put in fire door and seals to the plant room, just because there's so much electrical stuff in there, if a fire were to start, it would be here.

[Moonshine]

10 hours ago, nod said:

The door between the house and your internal garage The rest are fine unless your over three floors 

 

This, though mine is three floors from the front and two floors from the back. I discussed with the BCO and architect about the fire strategy and the BCO was satisfied there was an acceptable escape route to the rear on the part with two stories. I made sure I got this in writing before ordering and installing the doors.

 

This means I didn't have to have fire doors to the central stairs. Only fire door I needed was to the integral garage.

 

The bco will likely ask for a FD30s which is a 30min fire door with smoke seals.

[Post and beam]

We wont have an internal garage and its a 2 storey house so on this basis i dont need any fire doors.

I am trying to budget for internal doors so this makes a difference. Need 14 in total.

Thanks guys

[Moonshine]

6 minutes ago, Post and beam said:

We wont have an internal garage and its a 2 storey house so on this basis i dont need any fire doors.

I am trying to budget for internal doors so this makes a difference. Need 14 in total.

Thanks guys

 

Good to hear, though while on the subject of fire make sure your upstairs windows have suitable fire escape sizes and heights of the bottom of the openable area

[Post and beam]

20 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

suitable fire escape sizes and heights of the bottom of the openable area

All over it

[Thorfun]

28 minutes ago, Post and beam said:

We wont have an internal garage and its a 2 storey house so on this basis i dont need any fire doors.

I am trying to budget for internal doors so this makes a difference. Need 14 in total.

Thanks guys

i've been told by quite a few friends to get FD30 doors anyway as they're much more solid. yes, they're double the price but you can get a deal if you shop around and i dislike the flimsy feeling non-FD30 doors. ymmv.

[Russell griffiths]

5 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

i've been told by quite a few friends to get FD30 doors anyway as they're much more solid. yes, they're double the price but you can get a deal if you shop around and i dislike the flimsy feeling non-FD30 doors. ymmv.

Buy solid core doors not hollow core. 

You can also go 44mm for a heavy feel. 

[Thorfun]

6 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Buy solid core doors not hollow core. 

You can also go 44mm for a heavy feel. 

what's the price difference between a solid core 35mm door and a 44mm FD30 door though? probably not a lot. we got a good deal on FD30 doors, they're bloody heavy and should be a good solid door.

 

we got these XL Joinery doors for £143+VAT from Jewson. the 35mm version were £83+VAT.

[Russell griffiths]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

what's the price difference between a solid core 35mm door and a 44mm FD30 door though? probably not a lot. we got a good deal on FD30 doors, they're bloody heavy and should be a good solid door.

 

we got these XL Joinery doors for £143+VAT from Jewson. the 35mm version were £83+VAT.

From those figures it’s £60 times 12-14 doors that’s a grand. 

My 35mm solid cores turned up today, I really don’t want them a lot heavier they where a pig to carry around the house. 

[Moonshine]

2 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

From those figures it’s £60 times 12-14 doors that’s a grand. 

My 35mm solid cores turned up today, I really don’t want them a lot heavier they where a pig to carry around the house. 

 

yeah my 35mm solid cores feel heavy enough. Also the £60 uplift is there also due to the fire door certification

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

From those figures it’s £60 times 12-14 doors that’s a grand. 

that's some interesting maths! 🤣 but i understand the sentiment.

 

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

I really don’t want them a lot heavier they where a pig to carry around the house.

that's the chippie's problem. 😉

[Willow]

Hi Can I just jump on this convo , our house is 3 storeys the plans say fire doors for second and top floor but ground floor doesn't is this correct ? 

[Russell griffiths]

19 minutes ago, Willow said:

Hi Can I just jump on this convo , our house is 3 storeys the plans say fire doors for second and top floor but ground floor doesn't is this correct ? 

Just thinking in common sense 

basically if  your in the kitchen and a fire breaks out you will run out the back door, if your in the front room you will run out the front door. 
but if you are upstairs and your route to outside is blocked by fire you will want to hide behind a fire protected door until help arrives. 
 

look at it like this and walk around thinking how you will get out. 
Obviously check the regs, but that’s the general gist of it. 

[saveasteading]

4 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

look at it like this and walk around thinking how you will get out

Your explanation should be line one of the fire section of the reg's. 

 

Maybe people who try to cheat the rules, and principles,  will understand this.

[kandgmitchell]

Normally, you will have a protected stairway all the way down to a final exit. That route is separated from rooms by minimum FD20 (realistically FD30 doors as they are easier to source) doors in 30 min. FR partitions. That would include the ground floor.

[ETC]

4 hours ago, Willow said:

Hi Can I just jump on this convo , our house is 3 storeys the plans say fire doors for second and top floor but ground floor doesn't is this correct ? 

No.

[Happyhouse]

 

On 25/01/2024 at 13:42, Moonshine said:

 

This, though mine is three floors from the front and two floors from the back. I discussed with the BCO and architect about the fire strategy and the BCO was satisfied there was an acceptable escape route to the rear on the part with two stories. I made sure I got this in writing before ordering and installing the doors.

 

This means I didn't have to have fire doors to the central stairs. Only fire door I needed was to the integral garage.

 

The bco will likely ask for a FD30s which is a 30min fire door with smoke seals.

 

I am facing a similar situation and came here to find some practical advice. Our project is on a slope, front has 3 storey and back side has 2 storey - lower ground (opens to terrace garden), ground (several exits to terrace connected to garden and front door) and first floor (which is less than 4.5 meters from ground level all along the back). However, the fire consultant is calculating the height of the building from the foundation of the lower ground level and insisting on protective stairwell. That is not only going to add substantially to the costs but also change the feel of an open plan living space. I am exploring if we need to go to another fire consultant who is going to take time to understand the design of the building before suggesting the strategy. Any recommendations would be most helpful please.   

 

[Mike]

Hi, and welcome to the forum :)

 

12 hours ago, Happyhouse said:

the fire consultant

Not sure why that's required for a regular UK domestic house? Unless I've missed something...

 

13 hours ago, Happyhouse said:

However, the fire consultant is calculating the height of the building from the foundation of the lower ground level and insisting on protective stairwell

For a domestic house, my interpretation is that the Building Regs are concerned about ensuring (relatively) safe egress from the building to the ground in the case of fire. Hence they call for either an emergency escape window (i.e you could drop to the ground without a major risk to your life) or a protected stairway (in other cases).

 

Admittedly there would be a somewhat elevated risk of fire spread / ferocity due to the greater stack effect caused by the greater overall building height compared to a regular house. But that would also be the case in a house that had a double-height upper floor, which the Regs don't take into account - they only talk about the distance from ground level.

[kandgmitchell]

The consultant is correct - see diagram D6 in the Approved Document B. The highest floor level is measured from the lowest ground level up to that floor. The issue would be that escape for those rooms facing the higher ground level (so effectively traditional two storey) could be via escape windows. However, those rooms on the three storey side can't use that approach so a protected route is needed. You may be able to design a situation where the rooms on the three storey side can get access to the two storey side by perhaps closing off the upper storey with a fire door. That way persons can pass through the upper landing free of any fire and smoke coming up from below. These days a lot of BC bodies would expect to see this presented by a fire consultant. A sign of the times I'm afraid.

[Thorfun]

@Happyhouse if a protected staircase doesn't fit in with your aesthetics and design then you can investigate a fire suppression system. i honestly think for us it would've been cheaper to fit that than to go through all the hoops and costs to fit escape windows and exits etc.

Edited March 17 by Thorfun
tagged poster

[Post and beam]

Portable fire mist system on the landing. Uses a lot less water and should fulfil that requirement to get out.

 

[kandgmitchell]

Both these will almost certainly need to be presented by a fire consultant to BC