Fire / smoke alarm placement

[Pocster]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-approved-document-b
 

Read all 180 pages of that … 😆

 

Open plan kitchen , dinner , lounge .

 

Assume heat alarm in kitchen ( but regs on its positioning ??? )

Smoke alarm in lounge .

 

That sufficient ? ( yes - interlinked )

 

Can’t see any reference to size of room e.g lounge the size of football pitch has just one smoke alarm ?

 

Photo to attract attention but not relevant 

Edited January 3 by Pocster

[dnb]

Trying to understand this one myself. Attempting to solve the problem by overkill - was fairly cheap to buy a kit of bits for a small office, including red call points that I won't be fitting in the house...

 

I have the same open plan arrangement so am putting a heat sensor in the kitchen area and a normal smoke alarm in the lounge area. Roughly centred in each "section" of the room because there's not much else to go on. I have a couple more requirements too thanks to having 3 above ground storeys, but thankfully it's not a "large dwelling" for the purposes of fires.

[elite]

I'm two storey, with kitchen open to lounge and diner.

 

I've done heat alarm in kitchen, smokes in lounge and first floor landing. Additional smoke in snug which is accessed via the lounge.

 

I've gone central-ish positioning on the ceiling for all of them.

 

Don't recall a reg for room size, but I think they are meant to be within 7m of the door of each habitable room, but obviously not applicable if you're open plan

 

[Pocster]

12 minutes ago, dnb said:

Trying to understand this one myself. Attempting to solve the problem by overkill - was fairly cheap to buy a kit of bits for a small office, including red call points that I won't be fitting in the house...

 

I have the same open plan arrangement so am putting a heat sensor in the kitchen area and a normal smoke alarm in the lounge area. Roughly centred in each "section" of the room because there's not much else to go on. I have a couple more requirements too thanks to having 3 above ground storeys, but thankfully it's not a "large dwelling" for the purposes of fires.

Upstairs was easy . Smoke alarm in each bedroom and hallway .

Still don’t get where the kitchen heat alarm goes . Obviously not over hob nor near oven . But where ? . “Outside “ the cooking zone but still in the kitchen ? . Perhaps it’s not important just as long as you have them ( the location I mean )

[Pocster]

Any recommendations for alarms ?

I got a mains power cable through to each point but ( doh ) didn’t put a comms cable - so need wireless interlinking …

[elite]

I went with Aico, but I did get staff discount through someone that works there

[ETC]

1 hour ago, Pocster said:

Open plan kitchen , dinner , lounge .

 

Assume heat alarm in kitchen ( but regs on its positioning ??? )

Smoke alarm in lounge . Correct. Maximum radius is 5.3m - you can do the maths.

 

That sufficient ? ( yes - interlinked ) Not sufficient if a new house. SAA in the principal habitable room plus SAA in circulation routes on each storey - 3m from every bedroom door and 7.5m from a living room/kitchen door and less than 15m apart in a long corridor. If a utility room is a circulation space you need a HAA. All a load of balls though according to the guy that wrote the BS.

 

Can’t see any reference to size of room e.g lounge the size of football pitch has just one smoke alarm ? Nope - if the storey is over 200m2 you will need a full FA system and the location of the detectors will depend on the type used.

 

Photo to attract attention but not relevant Pity.

 

 

[ProDave]

18 minutes ago, Pocster said:

Any recommendations for alarms ?

I got a mains power cable through to each point but ( doh ) didn’t put a comms cable - so need wireless interlinking …

AICO without a doubt.

 

And definitely NOT Fire Angel.

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, ETC said:

That sufficient ? ( yes - interlinked ) Not sufficient if a new house. SAA in the principal habitable room plus SAA in circulation routes on each storey - 3m from every bedroom door and 7.5m from a living room/kitchen door and less than 15m apart in a long corridor. If a utility room is a circulation space you need a HAA. All a load of balls though according to the guy that wrote the BS.

So.......

 

Kitchen sorted. My lounge/dinner is under 15m so is sufficient i.e. it would be under 7.5m from ( my non existent ) doorways. But you are saying a max radius of 5.3m from the sensor. I'll just bung 2 in .Agree it's all BS.

[ProDave]

The regs are different in Scotland, they were not needed in each bedroom just on a landing and within 3M of a kitchen door.

 

I put a couple of extras.  Utility room, I want to know if the tumble dryer is smouldering.  Plant room / workshop above the garage, it is so far from other rooms I want to know if anything is going on in there.

 

Kitchen /diner was just covered by the one heat alarm.  Aico do a heat and CO alarm all in the one package that made things neat in the kitchen diner (gas hob and WBS so needed CO)

[Pocster]

47 minutes ago, elite said:

I went with Aico, but I did get staff discount through someone that works there

I know him also 

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, Pocster said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-approved-document-b
 

Read all 180 pages of that … 😆

 

 

Been there. Done that:

 

About 120 square meter building:  Smoke detector in porch(through door to) smoke detector in lounge(through door to) heat detector in kitchen, and smoke detector in upstairs landing connected by open stairway from the lounge with the smoke detector all interlinked. 

[TonyT]

Extract from scot gov,

I added the bedrooms in as well due to kids / electronics/ trying stuff..

 

What you need to do

Every home must now have:

• 1 smoke alarm in the room you spend most of the day, usually your living room
• 1 smoke alarm in every circulation space on each storey, such as hallways and landings
• 1 heat alarm in the kitchen

All smoke and heat alarms should be mounted on the ceiling and be interlinked. Check the manufacturers guidance on each alarm for instructions on where the alarm should be placed.

If you have a carbon-fuelled appliance, like a boiler, fire, non-electric heater or flue you must also have a carbon monoxide detector. This does not need to be linked to the fire alarms. Gas cookers and hobs do not need a carbon monoxide detector.

Examples

If you live in a 3 bedroom, 2 storey house you need 3 smoke alarms and one heat alarm. You may also need carbon monoxide alarms.

• 3 linked smoke alarms:
  • on the upstairs landing
  • in the downstairs hall
  • in the living room
• 1 linked heat alarm in the kitchen
• 1 carbon monoxide alarm in any room where you have a carbon-fuelled appliance like a boiler, wood-burning fire place or flue. This does not need to be linked to the other alarms

If you live in a 1 bedroom flat, you need 2 smoke alarms and 1 heat alarm. You may also need carbon monoxide alarms.

• 2 linked smoke alarms:
  • in the hall
  • in the living room
  • 1 linked heat alarm in the kitchen
• 1 carbon monoxide alarm in any room where you have a carbon-fuelled appliance like a boiler, wood-burning fire place or flue. This does not need to be linked to the other alarms

If you have an open plan living room and kitchen you only need to have 1 alarm in this space and it should be a heat alarm.

The types of alarm you'll need

There are 2 types of interlinked fire alarms that meet the new rules:

• sealed battery alarms – which should be tamper-proof long-life (which can be up to 10 years) batteries. You can fit these alarms yourself.
• mains-wired alarms - these are cheaper than tamper proof long-life battery alarms, but should be installed by a qualified electrician. These should be replaced every 10 years.

Both types of alarm are interlinked by radio frequency without the need for WiFi.

If the carbon monoxide alarm is battery operated, it must have a sealed battery for the duration of its lifespan, which may be up to 10 years. 

[kandgmitchell]

English regs say in AD B Volume 1 - Dwellings

 

Section 1: Fire detection and alarm systems
General provisions
1.1 All dwellings should have a fire detection and alarm system, minimum Grade D2 Category LD3 (see diagram below as an illustration)
standard, in accordance with the relevant recommendations of BS 5839-6.

 

Should however you have the standard Grand Designs house:

 

Large dwellinghouses
1.5 A large dwellinghouse has more than one storey, and at least one storey exceeds 200m2.
1.6 A large dwellinghouse of two storeys (excluding basement storeys) should be fitted with a Grade A
Category LD3 fire detection and alarm system, as described in BS 5839-6.
1.7 A large dwellinghouse of three or more storeys (excluding basement storeys) should be fitted with
a Grade A Category LD2 fire detection and alarm system as described in BS 5839-6.

 

LD3 Minimum Protection

Escape routes only

Escape routes only   Category LD3: A system incorporating detectors in all circulation areas that form part of the escape routes from the premises. • Hallway • Landing Note: This minimum category now only applies to owner occupied bungalow, flat, single-storey unit or maisonette with no floor level above 4.5m from ground level or owner-occupied two-storey house.

 

 

[Pocster]

My sparky is here in a few weeks so I’ll see what he requires . He’s got to sign it off so Bco won’t bitch at his decisions.

[Russell griffiths]

Nobody has mentioned so I will chip in. 

My system is all wired back to a control panel, so in the bedroom walk in wardrobe we have a panel that shows what alarm is beeping, so if bedroom 3 is beeping and it’s just the mother in law in there you can ignore it for 10 minutes until the fumes have done her in, then go and investigate. 

 

Its got a couple of good points, you can see what is beeping if you have multiple alarms. 

You can silence a beeping alarm from the panel so you don’t need to stand on a chair or if you have vaulted ceilings and it’s 4m up in the air. 

 

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Pocster said:

My sparky is here in a few weeks so I’ll see what he requires . He’s got to sign it off so Bco won’t bitch at his decisions.

I did what my sparky said and my BCO said "it's the electrician who signs it off so it's up to him" so I'm happy with what my electrician has said. only thing BCO said to me was regarding an inner room in the basement that needed a smoke alarm as we hadn't put one there.

[Thorfun]

oh. and I bought Aico as well after reading good things and recommendations from on here. my electrician also suggested I use Aico.

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Nobody has mentioned so I will chip in. 

My system is all wired back to a control panel, so in the bedroom walk in wardrobe we have a panel that shows what alarm is beeping, so if bedroom 3 is beeping and it’s just the mother in law in there you can ignore it for 10 minutes until the fumes have done her in, then go and investigate. 

 

Its got a couple of good points, you can see what is beeping if you have multiple alarms. 

You can silence a beeping alarm from the panel so you don’t need to stand on a chair or if you have vaulted ceilings and it’s 4m up in the air. 

 

I found ip cameras good . You can watch certain people burning before you intervene. Note to self : always delete footage 

Edited January 9 by Pocster

[Russell griffiths]

3 minutes ago, Pocster said:

I found ip cameras good . You can watch certain people burning before you intervene. Note to self : always delete footage 

Your as sinister as me. 

[Pocster]

Just now, Russell griffiths said:

Your as sinister as me. 

I find it most pleasing when the ip is in my (expletive deleted) neighbors house . Watching them burn is better than any Netflix show - and free ( minus camera costs of course ) 

[TonyT]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Nobody has mentioned so I will chip in. 

My system is all wired back to a control panel, so in the bedroom walk in wardrobe we have a panel that shows what alarm is beeping, so if bedroom 3 is beeping and it’s just the mother in law in there you can ignore it for 10 minutes until the fumes have done her in, then go and investigate. 

 

Its got a couple of good points, you can see what is beeping if you have multiple alarms. 

You can silence a beeping alarm from the panel so you don’t need to stand on a chair or if you have vaulted ceilings and it’s 4m up in the air. 

 

you get switches to mute alarms that are fitted at low level

[Pocster]

Finally got round to purchasing 

I was annoyed that the aico RF ones are rf as long as you buy the additional rf module . Slightly misleading in my opinion .

As I need 5 smoke and 1 heat that bumps the price a lot .

So went with safe-tech .

£350 inc vat .

To save more cash ( after 11 yrs I decided I need to budget ) . I’ll wire them all in - stick a plug on the end . Pair / test the lot . Sparky at a later date will roll his eyes but just has to do a connection in the CU .

[ProDave]

In a new build you should just fit hard wired, 3 core & earth between all of them.  RF linking is really for retro fit to save taking up loads of floor boards to run interlink cables.

 

Plenty of cheap Aico stuff on ebay but watch "replace by" dates.

[Pocster]

15 minutes ago, ProDave said:

In a new build you should just fit hard wired, 3 core & earth between all of them.  RF linking is really for retro fit to save taking up loads of floor boards to run interlink cables.

 

Plenty of cheap Aico stuff on ebay but watch "replace by" dates.

Yeah they are mains powered with battery backup . I wish ( knew ! ) I should have put a data cable through …

No chance of data cables through now - still as long as it works , sparky will be moderately happy .

Edited March 17 by Pocster