Young, naive and potentially stupid.....

[ClifftopBuild96]

First of all , thanks to everyone who posts on this forum. I've been trawling through historic posts and have learnt a lot already & I know it will be an invaluable source of info for me over the next few years. 

 

Background - 

 

- I'm 27

- Recently purchased an old bungalow with planning permission for a chalet dormer bungalow with Double garage. 

 

Location - Kent. 

 

The plan is to demolish the existing chalet bungalow and construct a new one in a better location on the plot itself.

 

I have 0 construction experience and wish to do as much of the work as possible myself / with some help from my dad ( Who has completed various DIY kitchens / bathrooms etc in the past ). I am an engineer by trade so have some experience using my hands (Mostly irrelevant) ... Now I understand this may sound naive & I feel pretty nervous about the project, but over the next 2 years I plan to rigorously research each element of how to construct a house from scratch. After researching I'll start the project.

 

Fortunately time is on my side - 

 

- I will live with family over the course of the build so don't have a fixed rigid time frame

- Job entails working abroad for 6 Months of the year & I will have 6 months of the year free to work full time on the project with no distractions. 

 

I also plan to take a few intense courses prior to starting ie Groundworks, ICF construction, plastering / rendering etc. 

 

Anyway, enough of the rambling....

 

Do you have any shrewd advice for me prior to starting? 

 

Do any of you utilise a GANT chart / Excel for your projects? Have you found any useful templates of a self build online which details the step by step process?

 

Stupid question I'm sure, however - I understand when calculating floor space (m2) usually it's the ground floor and then x 2 if you have an upper floor? How does this work for 1.5 storey Chalet bungalow? I'm planning on using estimators.com which will allow me to compare pricing between blockwork & ICF. 

 

Is there any tasks that you would not attempt to do yourself & why?

 

The photo attached is the type of look I'm aiming to achieve. 

[ProDave]

Hi and welcome.

 

Sounds like a good project.  My best suggestion is to look at getting the basic structural shell built for you usually to "wind and watertight"  That entails the foundations, frame (by whatever method you choose) roof, windows and doors.  Those will be by far the hardest to do yourself with no experience.  Then all the inside work is relatively easy.

 

Don't at this stage get too fixed on one construction method. It is possible to build a really good well insulated house by all the different methods, so it may come down to what is normal for your area, i.e. what do the trades local to you know how to build?

[Square Feet]

Hi. You are going about things exactly the right way.  I'm twice your age but going through a lot of the same thinking and practical steps. It's all good. Your work setup makes the whole thing sound very achievable - hopefully it isn't the winter that you are free to work, but those aren't so bad in Kent so it should be ok either way.   I guess if you have time and energy then the only other magic ingredient is money, so keep working hard and saving as much as you possibly can.  You will need it all!

I am finding these books completely invaluable for my research and they really make me feel like I could build a house tomorrow (or at least plan one effectively).

https://www.firstinarchitecture.co.uk/books/

 

I would also recommend watching lots of eps of Grand designs. I don't have time to link to the good eps just now, but Joe and Lena, South London is one that springs to mind that you might find inspiration in as Joe sounds like a similar guy to yourself. You can watch these for free via the Channel4 app. I would really recommend paying the £3.50 for a subscription though as the ads all magically disappear.  Grand designs The Streets is also very good - don't overlook that one. 

 

Good luck.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Square Feet

[Canski]

Think about vampire costs. e.g. especially scaffold and plant that will still keep costing you even if you are not using it. 

[Russell griffiths]

Don’t do the plastering course, you will not be doing this yourself, same for the rendering. 

Things you can do as a keen diy’er 

demolition

level site

set out

dig foundation, or lay insulated slab

lay drains

build icf walls. 

Fit roof trusses

fit facia soffit

fit roofing

guttering

fitting windows 

first fix plumbing

electrics you can do a bit if you find a nice electrician to help

fitting insulation 

plaster boarding

fitting skirting and architrave 

fitting doors

fitting kitchen

decorating

Tiling

second fix plumbing. 

 

 

 

things you won’t be doing

laying floor slab

laying screed

plastering

rendering

 

crack on bud, I wish I was 27 again. 

 

[saveasteading]

Hi and welcome. I'm cough x older than you and still learning.

 

I had the privelege of teaching my son in law 'everything' about construction during lockdown. 

I learned how difficult it is to explain/ grasp some processes,  but then it clicks.

He struggled  to see why it was all so complex....it is because it isn't a factory where things click together in a precise order.

 

How did the project go? Still going after 2 years.

They are learning skills and now doing almost everything themselves except plumbing and electrics. Takes longer but cheaper and often better.

They have learned that I was right saying that many specialists are rubbish at what they do every day,  and some cheat.

Learning is easist when working alongside somebofy. Eg wd worked togrther on drainage, then after 2 days it was declared simple and i wasnt needed.

BUT there is the danger of being taught wrong. So keep asking on here.

 

Kent isn't the best place for good value contractors. Get learning.

 

Ours is a refurb, change of use, with some dramatic issues to resolve.

Knocking it down and building new is so much easier than refurb.

 

Can you keep any foundations or floor? So often they are replaced needlessly.

 

Tell us more.

Is the site flat/ dry / woooded/ rural/ got close neighbours

 

Silly question....its obv on top of a cliff.

Or you are Cliff and planning a top quality build.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by saveasteading

[joe90]

Welcome and good luck, yes this site is full of practical good intentioned advice from those that are, or have done it. I also wish I was 27 again but I am ancient and retired. With my build I had a single contractor pour the founds, build the shell, roof and plaster, I did the rest (retired self employed builder) and was happy to let the trades do the work I was not confident to do (bricklayer, plaster). Planning is a must (but I never use a spreadsheet 🤣). I also changed my mind several times on the construction method pre build and ended up brick and block. The mantra “insulate, insulate, insulate” is a good one, money spent on insulation just keeps giving, fuel, whatever it is will always go up in price, second to this is airtightness, which is achieved by close scrutiny on details (which you can do). Bring on the questions 👍

[saveasteading]

39 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Planning is a must (but I never use a spreadsheet 🤣). 

A spreadsheet is just a list.

The advantage is the ease of altering it to reality. Plus that people believe spreadsheets.

 

The downsides are being tempted to believe it,  using other people's items and priorities, and working to it too rigorously.

 

Add many periods of delay.

 

I must have done hundreds of programme spreadsheets, mostly for showing cash flow to clients.

They were effectively one line....start/ finish, with the process spread to fit.

The rest is detail, and to show people you are organised.

 

But for self build  it is mainly a guide to your thought processes and to flag up your critical decision points.

Lists are fine.

[joe90]

14 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

But for self build  it is mainly a guide to your thought processes and to flag up your critical decision points.

Lists are fine.

+1. 

[ClifftopBuild96]

@ProDave Hi Dave - Thanks for the advice.

 

The reason why I am initially leaning towards ICF is due to being able to lay it myself (with lots of prep) which in turn would cut back on labour costs. My initial plan is to get costings for both block & ICF constructions and then I can move forward from there. 

[ClifftopBuild96]

@Square Feet Thanks for all the info Squarefeet. 

 

Those books look great, and just the type of thing I need with some good visual representations!

 

I've recently taken an interest in Grand designs and have been watching them for inspiration - A lot tend to end up spending more than they first envisaged so unfortunately that could be the case for me too 😄

[ClifftopBuild96]

@Canski Thanks Canski, definitely something to think about once I start the build to keep the costs as low as possible. 

[ClifftopBuild96]

@Russell griffiths Thanks for the list that's very helpful.  If i can pull off all of those I'm sure I'll gain a lot of experience and save a lot of money! I plan to take my time with all jobs and am a bit of a perfectionist... A close friend is an electrician so I'm sure he will be able to assist and sign off the work once completed to the required standard. 

[Pocster]

Welcome .

 

My advice is simple . I can do it so you can do it .

Don’t think you mentioned how you will fund this ? . You want to take pressure off e.g savings - then time scale and costs can ( will ! ) slip without too much fiscal pain . Minimise risk as that can kill more than any lack of skill .

[ClifftopBuild96]

@saveasteading Thanks. I'm eager to learn as much possible on this project and hopefully work on some more in the future, depending on how well this one goes... As you say good quality contractors are expensive here in kent and I have a lot of spare time with a reasonably restrictive budget. 

 

The current property is located next to my neighbour, so I wish to move the whole property more central to the plot which would not overlap. The current property also has a basement which I may have to fill in.. I have thought about potentially adding a basement (whilst im digging new foundations anyway) to the new planning application but am wary about the added costs which may entail.  I have one neighbour, and the site is flat, dry & indeed on top of a cliff - But far enough back & reinforced below to be affected by erosion issues. 

[ClifftopBuild96]

Thanks @joe90 , I plan to live / keep the property for the foreseeable future so I'm thinking being energy efficient & future proof is the way forward too! 

[Bozza]

I 100% agree with @ProDave

 

You are proposing to work overseas 50/50.  Unclear if that’s a rota by choice or not.  I’m assuming your day rate or whatever is high.   If it were me I’d stick to my day job earning the £££ overseas then get a pro to build the house……

 

but if it’s because you want to get your hand dirty and be involved in the build I get that - but leave the founds and structure to to the pros would be my advice,.   By all means do the site clearance yourself, then hand over to the pros to build the structure to water tight, then do the fit and finish yourself, landscaping etc etc.  

 

If you are proposing to give up working hours and good money overseas to become a self builder I’d be surprised if the numbers would add up.  Take your own hourly rate -v- a tradesman/woman.  Say a plumber earns your hourly rate they would complete work 10x quicker than you can.  Yes you’d be cheap/free but not if you’re giving up a good salary.  
 

 

[ClifftopBuild96]

@Pocster I plan to use the next 2 years to save & then start the build utilising a self build mortgage if needed. I work for 10 weeks away and then get 10 weeks off, so will be able to work on my project full time when I'm at home.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence and advice! I would love to get the bulk of the project finished within 2 years of starting..

[ClifftopBuild96]

@Bozza Hi Bozza,

 

Thanks for that, it's certainly food for thought. You're right that it's probably a false economy, I am on a 50/50 rotation but could potentially get agency work if required.

 

I think I'll have to revisit the topic nearer the time depending on the situation. My thoughts are that a future partner / kids etc may not be happy with me being away from home for more than my alloted rota. But who knows what will happen over the next few years! 

[Bozza]

1 minute ago, ClifftopBuild96 said:

@Bozza Hi Bozza,

 

Thanks for that, it's certainly food for thought. You're right that it's probably a false economy, I am on a 50/50 rotation but could potentially get agency work if required.

 

I think I'll have to revisit the topic nearer the time depending on the situation. My thoughts are that a future partner / kids etc may not be happy with me being away from home for more than my alloted rota. But who knows what will happen over the next few years! 

Yes and likewise a future partner would not be happy you spending several years of your at home time on a site      If it were me I’d deffo do some agency work in the trade you know to build up ££ reserves.  Building a home yourself from scratch will take a lot of years for someone unskilled.

 

 

[Pocster]

18 minutes ago, ClifftopBuild96 said:

@Pocster I plan to use the next 2 years to save & then start the build utilising a self build mortgage if needed. I work for 10 weeks away and then get 10 weeks off, so will be able to work on my project full time when I'm at home.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence and advice! I would love to get the bulk of the project finished within 2 years of starting..

😊 . We all say “ finish in x years “ - it always takes longer . A mortgage puts you under pressure that’s all and the rate may ( or may not ) be favourable .

Appreciate a mortgage may be your only way forward - but keep that as small as possible . If you can work to save then you can reduce your borrowing - might take longer ; but risk is reduced .

Your nativity ( like mine ! ) is your gift . As @joe90 would say “ you don’t know what you don’t know “ . Therefore you just jump straight in and learn ( usually from mistakes ) as you go - enjoy the rollercoaster 😊

[Thorfun]

If I may add my 2 cents. 
 

I started by reading Mark Brinkley’s book (it was before I knew this forum existed but would still recommend it as a great overall picture on building a house). 
 

you will overrun. And you will be over budget! Ask me how I know. 😉

 

read the blogs on here. They are a great source of information from folk who have or are doing it!

 

we built a basement (see my blog for details) as have many others on here. It’s a great way to get extra space when planning won’t allow it above ground. But, they’re not cheap. It seems strange to me that the existing bungalow has a basement but you want to fill it in and dig another one! Seems like an expensive idea to me. I wonder if you could put a lid on the current basement and somehow connect it to the new bungalow’s location? Kind of like a secret bunker. If the lid opened you could have a thunderbirds base!

 

I also +1 on the comments to use someone experienced to get you to watertight and then do the rest yourself. The way we’ve approached our build was just like that. Anything structural we left to the professionals. And anything visible we left to the professionals, eg plastering, cladding etc. we’ve done all the insulation, membrane, battening, plumbing, painting etc. saved money but it definitely slows things down and it can easily get you down with how long it takes and the lack of perceived progress. But it is very rewarding! And because of that sense of reward I have to disagree with @Bozza and fully encourage you to have a go and not just pay someone to do it all. You might be able to earn money to pay someone on your downtime but you’ll miss out on so much. 
 

good luck with it all. 

[Crofter]

Welcome aboard.

I understand the suggestion to use pros to get to wind and watertight, but you're missing out a lot of the fun.

Granted, my build was tiny (50m²) but I found the basic structure to be very satisfying. Watching your plans come alive under your own hands. I was TF so it was just chop saw and nail gun, and I had the whole thing built singlehanded in a few weeks.

At the framing stage, you can be pretty sloppy, the tolerances are much wider than later on.

When I came to do the interior, I got nervous about messing it up. Things like kitchen worktops or skirting will show your abilities for all the world to see. I found my rate of work slowed down a lot. And some jobs seemed never ending- insulation, applying a vapour/airtight barrier inside the frame, plasterboarding a vaulted ceiling, and even just the painting, dragged on for weeks and weeks.

 

The only bits I didn't DIY were the major groundworks (couldn't hire a big enough digger), plastering, UVC, and wiring (although I did labour for the sparky).

 

There's a good thread on here somewhere about getting value for money 'wow' features in your build, I'll see if I can find it, it had some useful tips.

[Square Feet]

2 hours ago, ClifftopBuild96 said:

@ProDave Hi Dave - Thanks for the advice.

 

The reason why I am initially leaning towards ICF is due to being able to lay it myself (with lots of prep) which in turn would cut back on labour costs. My initial plan is to get costings for both block & ICF constructions and then I can move forward from there. 

I think you should watch this before settling too much on ICF.  I have picked SIPs for the same reason - I think I can build them myself. ICF seems like a stressy disaster waiting to happen.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/grand-designs-the-streets/on-demand/58244-001

[Crofter]

Here's the thread about wow factor: