Pocster Posted September 22, 2023 Author Share Posted September 22, 2023 26 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: The media seem to paint a picture that all houses are bought to rent out at inflated prices. The problem today is : As a LL I buy a typical house in an ok area for 400k ( in my city ) I need a 25% deposit as a btl - just say I have 100k doing nothing 🙄 300k mortgage at ( we will be kind ) 6%. So interest is 18k a year . Ignoring repairs / voids / legislation etc . A monthly rent of 2k makes it not worth the effort . Yet 2k a month rent is certainly not insubstantial. Obviously my example is rather crude - but the high purchase price and the high loan costs mean rent has to be higher . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, Mattg4321 said: modern well built Oftentimes an oxymoron one suspects. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Valley Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, ProDave said: Good news for tenants. There will be fewer landlords selling up as the properties are impossible or too expensive to upgrade, so less of a reduction in the rental stock. Too late - already sold one of ours. The EPC was not the only reason as managed to get it through before the CGT allowance changes in April. This govt and others have been targeting Landlords as the reason for poor property supply to the nation. Complete nonsense as we all know it's the lack of new build homes that is the problem. Edited September 22, 2023 by Happy Valley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 16 minutes ago, Happy Valley said: Too late - already sold one of ours. The EPC was not the only reason as managed to get it through before the CGT allowance changes in April. Yes what most people don't see is all the gradual changes to the rules LL's have to operate under. More requirements for tests and checks and general paperwork, changes to the tax rules so less genuine expenses can be offset against tax, so more tax for the LL to pay, compulsory registration of LL's, another paperwork mountain and costs, reductions in CGT allowance so you pay more CGT if you sell. And for a lot of people the rise in interest rates. There has been a general trend over the last few years to hurt landlords and charge them more just about everywhere they can. And then they act all surprised when LL's sell up and there are fewer properties to let and rents go up. They just can't see cause and effect. Make things better for tenants = make things worse for landlords = landlords quitting the business = fewer rentals = higher prices for tenants. Oh and during Covid / lockdown etc give tenants a right to a rent holiday as they were not allowed to work, but at the same time give NO HELP to landlords who still had to pay their bills. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Pocster said: As a LL I buy a typical house in an ok area for 400k ( in my city ) I need a 25% deposit as a btl - just say I have 100k doing nothing 🙄 300k mortgage at ( we will be kind ) 6%. So interest is 18k a year . Ignoring repairs / voids / legislation etc . A monthly rent of 2k makes it not worth the effort . Yet 2k a month rent is certainly not insubstantial. Obviously my example is rather crude - but the high purchase price and the high loan costs mean rent has to be higher . The maths / economics are obvious looked at this way. The other side of the equation has some similar maths associated with it. The median (mean is higher but distorted by a small number of individuals earning very large amounts - don't forget the tax system is open ended above 40%, household disposable income (after direct taxes) was £32K (ish) in 2022 so for you to get a return on your investment this household would need to spend 75% of their disposable income on rent! I appreciate that a £400K house might be beyond the expectations of 50% of the UK's households but to get back to the 5 times your income mortgage test these families can only afford houses in the £200K region. Something is out of whack somewhere me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattg4321 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Too many people or not enough houses is what it boils down to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Dealing with climate change is going to cost a lot of money. Delaying starting is only going to increase the rate of spend we eventually need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, Mattg4321 said: Too many people or not enough houses is what it boils down to. Too many people on the planet full stop. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, markc said: Too many people on the planet full stop. Attenborough has being saying that for years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, markc said: Too many people on the planet full stop. 8 minutes ago, markc said: Too many people on the planet full stop. Centainly seems to be a large increase in Earth population over the last 60 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Yes the ability of the planet to support the population is a problem. After all it takes only seconds to create a new persons zygote and that person may then need to rely on the planet to sustain them, and all that entails, for 80+ years. There we just over 700,000 births in the UK in 1994 - they will be 29 now. If they all live as couples and wanted to buy in 2022 we needed to have built 350,00 houses, yet we only managed to build 233,000 and this does not take into account migration / death rate and immigration numbers which will adjust it a bit. Yet again something is out whack even though the fact that 700,000 people born in the UK in 1994 might be expected to be wanting a home around now. Oh and the fact that the baby boomers will start to need care and the plant is warming up, people want to get away for the over hot places to cooler climes, get out from under difficult political & cultural situations and.... Sadly I feel we need to blame our politicians for not getting to grips with anything - or that is how it feels. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted September 22, 2023 Author Share Posted September 22, 2023 Once self build plots become available on Mars - I’m buying one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, Pocster said: Once self build plots become available on Mars - I’m buying one . I will sell you one. Payment by bitcoin, you have to arrange your own transport. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted September 22, 2023 Author Share Posted September 22, 2023 1 minute ago, ProDave said: I will sell you one. Payment by bitcoin, you have to arrange your own transport. Do I have to fight Mars BCO all the time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattg4321 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Depopulation is a problem though as China will shortly find out (although I’m sure they already know what’s coming). It’s probably why we in the west have been ramping up the amount of immigrants coming in. In any case even if it weren’t a problem, what do you do about it, without resorting to authoritarianism - which most people will likely reject. The reality is we can only do our best, and what we in the U.K. do will have no bearing on what the likes of China, India and the US do. If nothing changes there, we’re wasting our time anyway. We should start looking at ways to live with the climate change that might be coming, as well as reducing our carbon output/waste/pollution imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted September 22, 2023 Author Share Posted September 22, 2023 19 minutes ago, Mattg4321 said: Depopulation is a problem A quick nuclear war will help with that issue ( though May create a few more issues ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Another solution would be to make the rules the same for landlords and sales, so you cannot avoid improving the rating by selling up. I think this was well intentioned as a better EPC would make a property cheaper for the renter to run. For example my landlord replaced the gas boiler with an electric boiler in London as it was cheaper. Luckily it was a tiny flat, but on a larger property with more people running costs would have been horrible. The rules should take into account what is reasonably possible, so for example listed properties should be exempt(maybe they are) and the rules should probably be tighter for more modern properties. As someone said though, politicians don't understand technicalities so it would be lost on them. The other day a politician suggested that we limit the number of waste of time degrees that are being subsidised by the taxpayer. Someone pointed out that at the same time maybe we should have minimum qualifications to be an MP. I was astonished by the attitude of the Education Minister the other day, she was so off hand and dismissive on camera. In a business that would be commercial suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, AliG said: Another solution would be to make the rules the same for landlords and sales, so you cannot avoid improving the rating by selling up. I think this was well intentioned as a better EPC would make a property cheaper for the renter to run. For example my landlord replaced the gas boiler with an electric boiler in London as it was cheaper. Luckily it was a tiny flat, but on a larger property with more people running costs would have been horrible. The rules should take into account what is reasonably possible, so for example listed properties should be exempt(maybe they are) and the rules should probably be tighter for more modern properties. As someone said though, politicians don't understand technicalities so it would be lost on them. The other day a politician suggested that we limit the number of waste of time degrees that are being subsidised by the taxpayer. Someone pointed out that at the same time maybe we should have minimum qualifications to be an MP. I was astonished by the attitude of the Education Minister the other day, she was so off hand and dismissive on camera. In a business that would be commercial suicide. cant do that it would bankrupt too many people also the banks would never put up with it. imagine them repossing a place then having to drop 50k on it to pass an EPC before putting it up for auction. No chance. Better way is through the mortgage market, no new loans from 2040 onwards for anything EPC E or below. Doesnt stop cash buyers and there is plenty of notice. A heck of a lot of homes will become worthless overnight (cheaper to demolish than upgrade) so will have to be done sensibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Fair @Dave Jones. I probably wasn’t clear enough. The suggestions I was making weren’t based on everything being C rated, the rule should be the same for landlords and sales but the rule also has to be sensible. You would have to set a reasonably achievable level based on the age of the property and maybe other factors. Maybe have a limit on spending of 5% of the value of the house. There are penny of things that would get you a lot of epc benefit for modest cost on a lot of houses. That’s the low hanging fruit you want to be aiming for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 1 hour ago, AliG said: Another solution would be to make the rules the same for landlords and sales, so you cannot avoid improving the rating by selling up. Please don't joke, the SNP have already discussed the possibility of requiring an EPC C before you are allowed to place a property on the market for sale. I really really do hope they completely implode at the next election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 (edited) If you want to cut CO2e emissions, tax the bollocks off CO2 emitting fuels. It would not matter, environmentally, if a house used 1 MWh/year or 30 MWh/year if the energy source is CO2 free. If gas and electricity cost £1/kWh, house prices would soon drop. Edited September 22, 2023 by SteamyTea 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 43 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: you want to cut CO2e emissions, tax the bollocks off CO2 emitting fuels. That will make people take notice of the EPC when they buy a house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, joe90 said: That will make people take notice of the EPC when they buy a house. Well it should make people actually do something about improving the building. One problem will be crap 'life hacks' from internet tossers and con artists. But then Joe Public is welcome to join here and get some genuine advice. The ONS released heat and cold excess death data today. You would think that will our numbers, people would be doing something about it for themselves. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/excessmortalityduringheatperiods/englandandwales1juneto31august2022 Edited September 22, 2023 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 all the green stuff needs to be put on hold until china, asia and africa come down to what we are today. our 0.01% global contribution is just dog whistling for the luvvies. There is a generation of morons, the alphabet people types with a degree in cliff richard's monkey gland anti-ageing usage etc unfortunately they get a vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: all the green stuff needs to be put on hold until china, asia and africa come down to what we are today. What do you mean by that. What are you actually comparing? Also, why should we stop installing the cheapest form of electrical generation just because someone else isn't. That seems ridiculous, it is like deciding to buy your own Boing 777 because your neighbour flew to Spain for a holiday. 9 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: There is a generation of morons, the alphabet people types with a degree in cliff richard's monkey gland anti-ageing usage etc I take it you are a bit drunk, it is Friday evening after all. 9 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: unfortunately they get a vote. You get one as well, use it wisely, that way you may end up what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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