Landlord epc min c scrapped

[Pocster]

https://www.propertytribes.com/epc-changes-binned-breaking-news-t-127661041.html

[ProDave]

Good news for tenants.  There will be fewer landlords selling up as the properties are impossible or too expensive to upgrade, so less of a reduction in the rental stock.

[Kelvin]

You could never get the house that we rent to C. It’s G currently. 

[MikeSharp01]

Hmmmm maybe better for landlords but not, I suspect, better for tenants or the planet.

[ProDave]

21 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Hmmmm maybe better for landlords but not, I suspect, better for tenants or the planet.

The people that make these policies seem to think it is easy and cheap to make any property up to an EPC C and the only reason it is not happening is those lazy tight landlords cannot be bothered to spend just a little time and money to do it, so we will mandate that they have to do it.

 

The reality is a huge amount of the UK housing stock is going to be very hard and very expensive to upgrade.  And with no financial help to do so, many landlords which such property are evicting the tenants and selling, while they still can.

 

This is just a symptom of "them" not understanding the problem and not knowing how to solve it.

 

Some people reading this and my other recent posts on the subject might think I don't care about energy efficiency and the environment.  I do.  But I also understand the challenges ahead and know there is no quick easy cheap solution.  It seem that "they" are finally realising that as well.

[Pocster]

@ProDave spot on .

It sounds ‘ bad ‘ but it was never feasible . If forced to upgrade to a C and it’s too expensive only option is to sell . How many properties would suddenly come on the market ? , how many tenants would be evicted ?

It would create a massive problem- where housing is already a massive problem.

Bit like labours U turn on rent capping .

The parties are all starting to realise the scale and complexity of the problem ….

If in doubt don’t make it worse .

[Dave Jones]

we have a g2 listed BTL, cant even put in double glazing. whole thing is a farce.

[Mattg4321]

There’s plenty of rentals around where double glazing is not allowed due to being in a conservation area etc

[Dave Jones]

yep completely idiotic.  Main source of heat in these old homes is burning coal. Perverse the government is preventing the owners from switching to a more green solution.

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, Mattg4321 said:

There’s plenty of rentals around where double glazing is not allowed due to being in a conservation area etc

There are double glazing solutions that are suitable for historic, listed and conservation areas, if you look. In most cases can be fitted to an existing frame.

[Mr Punter]

I have some flats in Conservation Area. All electric mostly small single occupancy.  The EPCs are confusing.  The top recommendation is internal or external wall insulation at a cost of £4,000-£14,000 each.  With the lower figure it would take 30 years to pay back, with the higher figure 106 years.

 

They liked to recommend high heat retention storage heaters and dual immersion water heaters.  The flats are mostly D and E.  One from end of 2019 recommended gas boiler.  Most are out by a fair bit in floor area.  Pretty crappy system IMO.

[JohnMo]

4 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Most are out by a fair bit in floor area.  Pretty crappy system

I would always go back to the EPC author and get them to correct any mistakes, because once you get in to the nitty gritty they tend to be rubbish in rubbish out, full of assumptions, from a 10 minute walk around, if your lucky.

[MikeSharp01]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

The reality is a huge amount of the UK housing stock is going to be very hard and very expensive to upgrade.  And with no financial help to do so, many landlords which such property are evicting the tenants and selling, while they still can.

Can we agree that whoever pays someone has to or the planet burns. The challenge is lack of forethought / planning for the carbon neutral future - like most on here we are trying to build a highly insulated home for ourselves where we use the minimum amount of energy to sustain us. In doing that I guess we are going some way to doing our bit. Essentially our politicians have cocked up and either way we will all have to pay - I would just rather it wasn't my grandchildren. 

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

"them" not understanding the problem

I doubt that most politicians, and their strategy advisors, have much idea of technical stuff, and will go blank if getting good, practical advice.

 

Of course there is a middle way, but it is by applying common sense, not by scrapping the need for improvement.

 

Many of us on BH could help, but they aren't asking us.

[ProDave]

24 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Can we agree that whoever pays someone has to or the planet burns. The challenge is lack of forethought / planning for the carbon neutral future - like most on here we are trying to build a highly insulated home for ourselves where we use the minimum amount of energy to sustain us. In doing that I guess we are going some way to doing our bit. Essentially our politicians have cocked up and either way we will all have to pay - I would just rather it wasn't my grandchildren. 

Absolutely.

 

Certainly I find it sad that all new build developer houses are not being built to close to passive house standards, that is criminal.

 

Whatever solution you come up with to a problem, it has to be achievable.  Set an unrealistic goal,. which I believe is what we had before, and it will fail.  Set a realistic goal and you stand a chance of achieving it.

 

The older houses are the problem that nobody has the solution for yet.  Pointless trying to put an ASHP in a Victorian semi unless you improve the building and there is no plan for that.

[Pocster]

The thing that irritates me as a LL I’m meant to get to a C ( even though I pay the bills ) but the rest of the home owner population can sit at an E or whatever !

LL’s save the works from climate change seems a tad unfair .

Like most though ; my self build exceeds minimum spec for EPC ( regardless of the rating )

Reality is coming home - voting public don’t like facts though ; they like belief aka lies …

[Mattg4321]

The problem is the astronomical cost of net zero. It might be possible by 2050 if we heavily commit to nuclear (along with renewables) now, but that’s never going to happen, so imo net zero is pie in the sky for the next 50 years at least. 
 

Some way needs to be found to get hold of the money/assets stockpiled by big business and the super rich. That seems unlikely though all the time they control the agenda. All the main parties in the developed world at least are in thrall to them. One thing that cretin Russell Brand had mostly right anyway. At the risk of going off topic it does make you wonder why this is the moment his questionable past is dredged up. 

[FuerteStu]

I cannot see building materials, or fossil fuels getting cheaper... 

 

Yes it's expensive now to bring old buildings closer to standard, but do you think it will be easier or cheaper further down the road?? 

 

The way epc is assessed is wrong, it should be treated on two levels.. Firstly a comparable score for costs of running, and secondly a realistic grade that the building is capable of achieving in its class. 

 

There isn't much logic in comparing a modern house, old flat and a 16th century barn with the same generic score

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, FuerteStu said:

Yes it's expensive now to bring old buildings closer to standard, but do you think it will be easier or cheaper further down the road?? 

There are so many estates of old, cold, damp houses 100 or more years old.  At some point, someone needs to make a bold decision, and replace them all with properly built modern houses.  A sort of modern slum clearance?

 

Don't ask me how to make that happen and who pays.  But that is what is needed.

 

I spent nearly 40 years when I was younger living in cold damp expensive to heat 1930's houses.  Frankly I would only buy one of those now at building plot price and knock down and rebuild.  Yet we have a housing market where if it is quaint, people will pay the same or more than a modern well built cheap to run house.

[Nick Thomas]

A weird aspect of the Japanese property market is that second-hand homes are fairly rare. Quite literally, they knock them down and rebuild them, en masse.

 

Random article on the phenomenon: https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2018/03/15/why-japanese-houses-have-such-limited-lifespans

 

Not sure I'd recommend it in pursuit of net zero, though.

 

Anyway, one can only hope the U turn will be U turned on again. Check back in a year or two.

[SteamyTea]

If you decide to become a landlord, why not buy a place that is already an A, B or maybe a C to start with?

[Pocster]

44 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

If you decide to become a landlord, why not buy a place that is already an A, B or maybe a C to start with?

Most LL’s buying anything now ( there aren’t many ! ) do exactly this . 
I believe a stat I read about a year ago was LL’s buying property accounted for under 4% of all property sales .

[SteamyTea]

4 minutes ago, Pocster said:

I believe a stat I read about a year ago was LL’s buying property accounted for under 4% of all property sales .

Quite possibly trueish.

The media seem to paint a picture that all houses are bought to rent out at inflated prices.

 

As a general note, I don't think the the EPC rating is about saving money for the owner or renter, it is about reducing CO_2e emissions.

Why we really need a simple, and well understood, carbon tax.

[Mattg4321]

10 hours ago, ProDave said:

There are so many estates of old, cold, damp houses 100 or more years old.  At some point, someone needs to make a bold decision, and replace them all with properly built modern houses.  A sort of modern slum clearance?

 

Don't ask me how to make that happen and who pays.  But that is what is needed.

 

I spent nearly 40 years when I was younger living in cold damp expensive to heat 1930's houses.  Frankly I would only buy one of those now at building plot price and knock down and rebuild.  Yet we have a housing market where if it is quaint, people will pay the same or more than a modern well built cheap to run house.

How long would that take to ‘pay back’ in carbon emissions terms though? Huge amounts of carbon are released when manufacturing materials and constructing a new build. 

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

If you decide to become a landlord, why not buy a place that is already an A, B or maybe a C to start with?

Of course if you are buying now.  But many landlords have older properties bought before there was any hint that someone might impose a minimum EPC for letting.

 

This is perhaps the beginning of the housing market pricing houses with a good EPC higher than those with a poor EPC?