Vaillant ashp (my battle with).

[Onoff]

9 hours ago, zoothorn said:

It's hard work because folks refuse to believe it when I say this house is simply just one if those rare anomalies, one you just cannot seem to heat.
 

 

I believe you in that I've a similar issue and feel your pain.

 

Since this crisis we've not used our oil for heating. Very uncomfortable is how I'd put it. We only use the oil for hot water. It's genuinely often colder inside the house than outside in the sun. As I write this, waiting to go to work I'm huddled under a blanket in the lounge.

 

With the house so cold you can feel a constant, gentle cold breeze across bare arms. No doubt coming from multiple gaps in the building fabric. It's pretty miserable tbh. 

 

We've put a curtain across the lounge and run a 2kW electric heater in there. It eventually takes the edge off after a good few hours.

 

My lad has taken to showering at work. Luckily my daughter is at uni. SWMBO and I huddle in the lounge at night like one of those old couples living in fuel poverty.

 

I'd put oil, gas, coal even wood in the "high quality" as in high temperature heat bracket. ASHP is "low quality" as in low temperature heat. It can and does work but you're building fabric needs to be proofed against heat loss and the effects of (cold) wind washing. I can't imagine how long, if at all, it would take for that to heat your big old stone wall fabric house at the same time compensating for the losses. 

 

Yes I could have the oil boiler running at full chat and it'll eventually bring the house up to a reasonable temperature. A wood / coal fire would be great to get some instant heat. 

 

Is there a room in your house where you could in effect do all six sides of the "box" with seamless, internal wall insulation as in no gaps in the insulation where the walls, floor, ceiling meet? That and have good windows and door. Think of it as a thermos flask. The better the insulation, with no gaps, the less loss through the walls of the flask, the hotter it feels and longer the heat stays in the flask "room". You would then need less heat to heat it. You would still need to be careful.ref ventilation. 

[JohnMo]

9 minutes ago, Onoff said:

2kW electric heater i

Why don't people do some simple maths. Your heater is costing you approx 52p per hour to run. Electric is circa 26p per kWh. Oil even now is about 10p per kWh - Less than half the cost of electricity. Sorry life's too short to be cold, running electric panel heaters to save money, not real.

[JohnMo]

14 minutes ago, Onoff said:

wood / coal fire would be great to get some instant heat

Maybe not that instant either, you may feel some radiant heat directly in front of it. But room doesn't get instantly get hot.

[Russell griffiths]

21 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Why don't people do some simple maths. Your heater is costing you approx 52p per hour to run. Electric is circa 26p per kWh. Oil even now is about 10p per kWh - Less than half the cost of electricity. Sorry life's too short to be cold, running electric panel heaters to save money, not real.

Have you not noticed the oil crisis 

oil for heating is not available at the moment by me, with the depots saying a 3 week wait for deliveries, then they are saying that they won’t give you a price until they have it. 
it’s nearly 3 times the cost as it was last summer. 
I think @Onoffis trying to conserve it for hot water. 
Once that tank is empty it don’t work anymore. 

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

I believe you in that I've a similar issue and feel your pain.

 

Since this crisis we've not used our oil for heating. Very uncomfortable is how I'd put it. We only use the oil for hot water. It's genuinely often colder inside the house than outside in the sun. As I write this, waiting to go to work I'm huddled under a blanket in the lounge.

 

With the house so cold you can feel a constant, gentle cold breeze across bare arms. No doubt coming from multiple gaps in the building fabric. It's pretty miserable tbh. 

 

We've put a curtain across the lounge and run a 2kW electric heater in there. It eventually takes the edge off after a good few hours.

 

My lad has taken to showering at work. Luckily my daughter is at uni. SWMBO and I huddle in the lounge at night like one of those old couples living in fuel poverty.

 

I'd put oil, gas, coal even wood in the "high quality" as in high temperature heat bracket. ASHP is "low quality" as in low temperature heat. It can and does work but you're building fabric needs to be proofed against heat loss and the effects of (cold) wind washing. I can't imagine how long, if at all, it would take for that to heat your big old stone wall fabric house at the same time compensating for the losses. 

 

Yes I could have the oil boiler running at full chat and it'll eventually bring the house up to a reasonable temperature. A wood / coal fire would be great to get some instant heat. 

 

Is there a room in your house where you could in effect do all six sides of the "box" with seamless, internal wall insulation as in no gaps in the insulation where the walls, floor, ceiling meet? That and have good windows and door. Think of it as a thermos flask. The better the insulation, with no gaps, the less loss through the walls of the flask, the hotter it feels and longer the heat stays in the flask "room". You would then need less heat to heat it. You would still need to be careful.ref ventilation. 

Hi Onoff, sorry to hear you're struggling a bit there.. we both lucky only a few more weeks until it -should- be spring proper.

 

Yes. You see I can make 1 effective room, 2 even. Despite having 1 old stone wall acting like a fridge on end. And with you guys' help this is in fact what I did. I have 1 room which retains this "low output" HP rad heat: my new build bedroom. The weirdness still affects it though: dark moisture-wet peripheries, of course on the stone end wall, but nowt to worry about if the room's warm. 
 

So you see now, I tramp down AM from this newbuild bedroom warm room (which I ventilate for 1/2 the day as soon as I leave it).. down into sittingroom, which thrn feels completely different. Then in into kitchen/ bathroom, which feel a step further on in coldness, & whichever adjacent room I flit between, I -have- to turn on a fan heater. Or I'd be uncomfortably cold. The sittingroom being big, can't be affected by the small fan heater: meaning I just vacate it until bearing an hour or two upon an leccy blanket + hottie, for my need to listen to my records/ vinyl.

 

So I have the IDEAL comparison. New build room, to original old stone big room, to oldbuild 80's extension. The 80's oldbuild extension (despite the 1" of celotex you suggested adding in 1 kitchen wall, a perfectly good idea of course) is actually, worse than the old sittingroom. How.. considering no draughts (none anywhere- blocked all up within months of buying the place p, bc I could sense the cold even in july & thought "that must, surely be draughts- no, it wasn't so simple as that unfortunately).... how is it so bad, despite no draughts. Well this is the sticking point it seems. My theory, vs kind chsps' ideas on here (that the HP can be effective in the 3 problem rooms: I say a HP just can't be). I'm doing their tests now, so the results (of sorts) in 3 weeks.

 

From this compsrison, I can tell the fundamental factor, is structure & how it can retain heat, outputting from a HP system with it's 'medium at best' temp rads. 
 

Thanks, Zoot

Edited 5 hours ago by zoothorn

[JohnMo]

7 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Have you not noticed the oil crisis 

oil for heating is not available at the moment by me, with the depots saying a 3 week wait for deliveries, then they are saying that they won’t give you a price until they have it. 
it’s nearly 3 times the cost as it was last summer. 
I think @Onoffis trying to conserve it for hot water. 
Once that tank is empty it don’t work anymore. 

And the current cost is? There are 10.35kWh per litre. So my comment still stands. Oil users were bragging not that long ago, it was the cheapest way to heat, now it's not for the first time in ages.