Telephone/broadband strategy for new build

[kandgmitchell]

Hi,

We are well underway with the organisation of the self-build on an empty newly approved plot. Service connections for drainage and water go in shortly, power ordered. The static caravan delivery arranged. So, moving into a caravan in a rural spot served by a private road on the outskirts of a village. One other house closeby that is served by a BT pole whose line comes across the fields off into the distance. I need a strategy for the next say 12 months. Mobile service is non-existant on my present provider so intend moving to Giff Gaff which piggy backs O2 as that seems to have some coverage. Will need broadband to keep modern life going.

So,

1) do I try to get an openreach service to the static then move it to the house when complete.

2) Go fully "wireless" in the 'van and then use that same system in the new house giving up the old copper line type of thing altogether.

3) Live with mobile broadband with a dongle thingy and get openreach to put a new line into the house when finished.

 

Now I'm in my late 60's and whilst technology is wonderful I do tend to shout a lot at it and cannot make out the endless acronyms that "techy" people use.

 

What have previous caravan livers done through their self build?

[Alan Ambrose]

My solution is to get proper fibre if you can (or 'fibre to the cabinet'' if you can't). Run it into a box next to the box on the edge of your plot ('kiosk)' that you're getting your 'temporary' builder's supply electricity to. Put your router/access point in there (with power from the box next door). Run wireless from the box and/or or CAT cable to your static. (Cable will be faster and more reliable.)

 

You'll be doing a lot of online googling / looking at BH / placing orders etc

 

Then run both your electricity and internet in ducting into the house when you're ready. Leave the 'temporary' boxes where they are. Same with water if you like.

[ProDave]

We just got a standard lousy BT wet string copper connection for barely faster than dial up speed "broadband"  That was all that was available.

 

We stuck with it in the mistaken belief that "super fast broadband" would be available to all.  But that promise never happened.

 

Eventually a private wireless delivered system became available that gives us about 60 MBPS which is faster but I would hardly call it "super fast"

 

I am still bitter at the promises of super fast broadband to all was just a pack of lies.

[JohnMo]

Our best from BT and any landline provider was basically rubbish internet, so bad they guy I spoke said I shouldn't bother and just get 4G.  I did and generally get a good service. Got a proper 4G modem and unlimited data SIM card for it. Not a dongle, so it just looks and feels like normal WiFi.

 

Don't have a landline phone, never used it out last house, just use mobiles this.

[Andehh]

Starlink? Wireless broadband wherever you want it.... 

[Mike]

I've been using a 4G connection with a huge data allowance for a couple of years. TV streaming isn't top quality, but but it's normally good enough for everything else. I have an Asus router tethered to the phone (Asus routers are one of the few domestic brands that can do that), and connect devices to the router over Wifi. So I'd suggest getting a GiffGaff SIM-only deal and see how it goes.

 

I'd also put a duct through the wall so that I could install a fixed line later, if required.

[joth]

You have to do this as part of building regs G2 now anyway so you may as well follow that process as do it all twice

 

1/ put in   Gigabit-ready Physical Infrastructure™️ (I.e. a duct) that new cable can be pulled through from the street if needed

2/ ask OR (and any other provider) for a quote to install gigabit internet.

 

Doing #2 does not eliminate the benefit of also doing #1.

 

Register with OR here

https://www.openreach.com/building-developers-and-projects/fibre-for-developers/registering-your-site

 

Building regs put a cap of £2000 on the amount you must  spend to get it installed so you can guess how much OR typically charge. 

[TonyT]

4G LTE modem with external antenna 

[SteamyTea]

How much are people paying for 4G, I was a bit horrified when I saw my Mother's telephone and broadband rental.

[JohnMo]

I pay £35 for unlimited data through Voxi.

[Mike]

8 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

How much are people paying for 4G

 

I'm in France, but it converts to about £12 /month for 300GB with unlimited national calls & texts.

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Mike said:

 

I'm in France, but it converts to about £12 /month for 300GB with unlimited national calls & texts.

Bargain those EU prices.

 

[AliG]

Assuming you know the address of the nearby house served by the same pole you would be connected to, put this into the broadband checker on the BT website and see which services and speeds you can get. I would note that you should look at both broadband only and broadband + phone as I get offered faster services for broadband and phone versus broadband only for some reason.

 

Assuming there is just a copper wire to a distant cabinet, it is likely you can only get a speed less than 40Mbps. Maybe considerably less depending on the distance.

 

Ideally you want a speed around 100Mbps which makes most things easily doable over broadband, although even 40Mbps is fast enough for one 4k video stream.

 

The alternative to this would be a mobile connection. I recently went through the exercise of trying to see what was the best connection at my house. I ordered a PAYG sim that worked on every network (not necessarily from the underlying network e.g. it was cheaper to use buy an Asda mobile sim to test Vodafone) and put them in a phone and then did a speedtest. In my case I wanted to see which signal best penetrated the walls of our house. Mobile speeds can vary wildly between networks in any given area. You can look online to see which network is liable to have the best signal. You may find that one of the networks is faster than the landline service.

 

This will give you an idea of where best to get service from. Even then I would probably put a duct into the ground so that cable can be connected up if a better service comes available (I would note that we put cable into the ground on my parents' house and then Openreach found a pole that they could connect to and were insistent they had to bring the cable through the air and attach it to the side of the house, so we went with Virgin instead). I would assume that the pole is so far aways that you would put a pole on the edge of your site and then duct from this to the house if required.

 

Openreach are very slow and a pain to deal with. You can contact them and have the site added to their database so that service can be connected up whether that is to the caravan or the house in the future. I think you will need to apply to the council for a street address first, or this will at least make it easier.

 

If you do need mobile service you will need the router to be able to get a signal from outside as modern insulation/triple glazing destroy the signal inside the house.

 

If neither mobile nor landline gives an acceptable speed then you can use Starling, it is just a bit more expensive.

[AliG]

9 hours ago, JohnMo said:

I pay £35 for unlimited data through Voxi.

 

9 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Bargain those EU prices.

 

You can get unlimited data for £16 a month in the UK.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

Just now, AliG said:

You can get unlimited data for £16 a month in the UK.

Yes, I did a search last night, not sure how good Smarty/3 are where I am, something else to check.

[AliG]

It is amazing how much it varies.

 

I just switched us over to Vodafone from Three and from contract to PAYG. The main reason was that we have lots of holidays planned this year and now that Three have ended free roaming, Vodafone PAYG was going to save me hundreds of pounds (We are going to some odd places like Japan, Israel and Egypt). PAYG global roaming plan is £25 each for 15 days for three phones. We are about to go to Japan for 11 days and then the USA for 11 days. USA is £5 a day in contract on Three, but free on PAYG which is bizarre. Japan is £3/MB on Three! Took me ages to figure out which network was best for upcoming trips.

 

The other reason for switching is that Three constantly slowed down to being unusable in central London. For example I often could not do anything with my phone in Kings Cross Station, it had 4 bars, but the internet speed was basically zero.

 

On the other hand Vodafone has more capacity in London  but is considerably slower than Three in Edinburgh. Annoyingly they limit 5G to PAYG over £40 a month or contracts. I moved to PAYG for the cheaper roaming benefits and the reduced risk that someone accidentally racks up a £1000 bill on our travels.

 

 

[joth]

12 hours ago, TonyT said:

4G LTE modem with external antenna 

But this will fail Building regs part R RA2 requirements.

 

(I made a typo and said G2 up thread, which is utterly unrelated but something else I was dealing with this week 😅)

Edited June 16, 2023 by joth

[JohnMo]

Would cost me more than £2k for the trench, let alone the duct or any other equipment.

[Happy Valley]

We have 3 4G wifi in our new house - I didn't want anybody drilling holes in the walls and we do not have an external aerial. 

 

It costs £20 pcm for all you can eat data and it runs our PCs phones and television (Amazon Netflix without any issue). You need the check the coverage where you are. I believe EE and Vodaphone may do something similar.

 

We do however have a ducting to the adopted road in the event that we ever need to put a hardwired line in.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Happy Valley

[TonyT]

35 minutes ago, joth said:

But this will fail Building regs part R RA2 requirements.

 

(I made a typo and said G2 up thread, which is utterly unrelated but something else I was dealing with this week 😅)

paste from the regs

 

Buildings in areas isolated from a relevant public electronic communications network where both of the following apply.
i. The cost of providing a connection to a USO-standard public electronic communications network connection would exceed the cost cap (see paragraph 2.21).
ii. The prospect of a connection to a gigabit-capable public electronic communications network, a high-speed public electronic communications network or a USO-standard public electronic communications network is too remote to justify equipping the building with gigabit-ready physical infrastructure or an access point.

 

End paste 

 

not saying I wouldn’t stick a duct in for it, just that if it’s cost prohibitive no one is going to stop you using you own means for comms…

[joth]

1 minute ago, TonyT said:

not saying I wouldn’t stick a duct in for it, just that if it’s cost prohibitive no one is going to stop you using you own means for comms…

Point is, even if you "know" it is cost prohibitive, you still need to get quotes from suppliers anyway to prove that and pass BR. So you may as well crack on and do that, while installing LTE as the short (and possibly long) term solution 

[TonyT]

Fully agree, easy to send them an email and get quotes, I might even give them a drawing and say they have to allow for excavation, backfill, full reinstatement of paving etc to make sure all the quotes were nice and high

[kandgmitchell]

Hi, I appreciate the replies. I've now put in the neighbour's address to the BT site. They are the only line from the pole and that pole is within an easy in the air run to our plot. The broadband speed is 32-36 Mb for "fibre essential" and 32-50Mb for Fibre 1. No difference if broadband only or broadband with phone. Given that the world is moving on line I guess I ought to be looking for better?

 

I'll register the plot with OP - we have an address registered but not yet on the Royal Mail permanent address list (that'll change once we occupy the caravan). In the meantime I'll explore the 4G options.

 

So complicated - give me concrete, timber and steel anyday!

[AliG]

That’s not great but a workable

speed. You can watch 4K Netflix and make Teams calls with that supper which is about as heavy use as you get. Multiple users at once would be more difficult.

 

It is probably safe to assume you will get a broadband speed of around 30Mbps so you can compare that to mobile alternatives.

 

You will need to ask a

service provider to connect you to get a cost from Openreach for the connection. If it is in the air via pole it may not be that expensive. For my parents we applied via Cuckoo as they don’t make you sign a 12 month contract. That what you can get it

connected up then cancel

if you want to use something else. It’s a lot easier to get it connected whilst doing all the other work. You cannot ask Openreach directly to do the work. It is a real pain.

 

[Bozza]

+1 for 4g router unlimited SIM card and external antenna in an area with rubbish landline broadband/no fibre area.

£16 pm with EE.    Get between 10-50 mbps but normally circa 18-20.
Enough for us including WFH, streaming TV etc, and 13 year old (say no more).

 

Have  never missed having a landline.  

 

as other post have suggested do what I did tried various payg networks find one that has best download speeds at your plot then put SIM card into sim free 4g router and connect to external antenna, if needed.  Super simple.