Realistic Self-Build Budget?

[Jim30]

Hello everyone, 

 

Occasionally a lurker here over the years but finally decided to change things up and join up and ask for advice (and maybe add some in the future?). 

 

My wife and I are looking at how realistic it is to do a self build (ICF preferred) of approx 100m2 (either 1 or 2 storey) with a total budget of £150K (excluding plot cost), right down to the kitchen /bathroom fittings (midrange). 

 

I intend to DIY as much as possible, paying trades for the skilled aspects etc. 

 

Now I know it's a how long's a piece of string question and I suspect that I'm missing something / seriously underestimating costs but some "rough" calculations look like this (excuse the ordering!) :

 

Carpet etc inc. fitting £3,000
Electrics £5,000
Plumbing & bathrooms £10,000
Triple glazed windows £15,000
Kitchen complete £10,000
Stairs £3,000
Foundations £12,000
Fencing £3,000
Heating, solar, pump, etc £15,000
Legal fees etc £10,000 
Roof £11k
ICF walls & concrete £25,000
Flooring frames £3,000 

 

For a rough total of £125,000. How wrong (or right) am I? 

 

I appreciate any answers because currently I'm reading so much that one moment my budget seems reasonable and the next it's nowhere close! 

[Chanmenie]

I think you would have to do the majority of it yourself to get anywhere close to £1500 pm2, but you would have a small low spec house. 

£12000 won’t cover the foundations unless you have perfect ground, no muck away and you dig out and concrete yourself.

So I think it would be a big risk and very stressful if you started the project and that was your max budget with no wriggle room.

[Jim30]

7 minutes ago, Chanmenie said:

I think you would have to do the majority of it yourself to get anywhere close to £1500 pm2, but you would have a small low spec house. 

£12000 won’t cover the foundations unless you have perfect ground, no muck away and you dig out and concrete yourself.

So I think it would be a big risk and very stressful if you started the project and that was your max budget with no wriggle room.

Thanks Chanmenie, this is exactly why I posted, I've seen / read so many articles / posts that actually trying to pin down realistic figures for the different components / work is driving me nuts... 

I do have 20% wiggle room as there's always something but.... 

[Dave Jones]

no chance if your not doing all the work.  Bare min £2.5k m2.

 

services connection fees, SE fees, BCO fees, Warranty Fees, air test fees, rendering/boarding the lege blocks, 2nd fix chippy doors/arc etc , floor joists, gutters, landscaping etc etc

 

get your plans properly QS'd by estimators.com for a couple hundred quid and at least you will know the real cost excluding footings/all the 'fees' people etc.

[Chanmenie]

1 minute ago, Jim30 said:

Thanks Chanmenie, this is exactly why I posted, I've seen / read so many articles / posts that actually trying to pin down realistic figures for the different components / work is driving me nuts... 

I do have 20% wiggle room as there's always something but.... 

Yeah I started out reading the articles and posts, but gave up reading about it, there’s just loads of stuff that crops up you hadn't thought of.

I'm building a chalet bungalow with ICF, the footprint is 130m2 with two large bedrooms in the roof giving another 70m2, I've got a budget of £300k plus a fair bit of wriggle room. 
My foundations cost approximately £23k and I did everything myself except digging and pouring concrete. However that does include 200mm of Celotex and the underfloor heating pipes , manifold and pump. And we had approximately 200ton of muckaway.
It’s strip footings and a ground bearing slab, as my ground is so good I only had to dig the footings 750mm so a relatively cheap job compared to many.

[Jim30]

6 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

no chance if your not doing all the work.  Bare min £2.5k m2.

 

services connection fees, SE fees, BCO fees, Warranty Fees, air test fees, rendering/boarding the lege blocks, 2nd fix chippy doors/arc etc , floor joists, gutters, landscaping etc etc

 

get your plans properly QS'd by estimators.com for a couple hundred quid and at least you will know the real cost excluding footings/all the 'fees' people etc.

Thanks Dave, it's starting to sound like I'm living in cloud cuckoo land. 

I'm assuming it must be economies of scale that big developers (and not so big) can buy the land, build houses, sell them for £175k (obviously depends on the area) and still make a profit. ☹️

[Jim30]

10 minutes ago, Chanmenie said:

Yeah I started out reading the articles and posts, but gave up reading about it, there’s just loads of stuff that crops up you hadn't thought of.

I'm building a chalet bungalow with ICF, the footprint is 130m2 with two large bedrooms in the roof giving another 70m2, I've got a budget of £300k plus a fair bit of wriggle room. 
My foundations cost approximately £23k and I did everything myself except digging and pouring concrete. However that does include 200mm of Celotex and the underfloor heating pipes , manifold and pump. And we had approximately 200ton of muckaway.
It’s strip footings and a ground bearing slab, as my ground is so good I only had to dig the footings 750mm so a relatively cheap job compared to many.

My footprint would only be about half yours (and I don't like underfloor heating) but I'm starting to feel like this might have to wait until a lottery win! 

[Dave Jones]

you have chosen an expensive build as well using ICF, i really wanted to try it but its double the cost of brick and block so couldn't justify the cost and also i hate render.

 

You have the budget for a traditional build to get a watertight shell easily. the £££ is finishing from that point.

[TonyT]

I think it costs £50K for persimmon to build their ‘homes’.  Online article so take that with a pinch of salt.

[JohnMo]

I think you need to nail down some details, 1 or 2 storey.  1 storey has a foot print twice the size as a two storey, but no need for and upstairs floor or stairs. A square building with rooms in roof has a good form factor, so requires less insulation for the same heat loss compared to a long single storey with vaulted ceilings. It also requires less foundation, wall etc.

 

From your list not seeing framing out internal walls, internal doors, second fix joinery, plasterboard, plastering or taping, you need to allow cost for ventilation, window budget looks low for triple glazed windows, you may be better with good double thanks cheap triple glazed.

[Dave Jones]

Just now, TonyT said:

I think it costs £50K for persimmon to build their ‘homes’.  Online article so take that with a pinch of salt.

 

a friend is a site manager for taylor wimpey, surprisingly they dont pay a lot less than anyone else for mats and labour. They have endless dirt cheap land is where they make the money. Sites bought years ago for a pittance per m2. It's why they rarely build newly acquired sites, they cant make enough on them. They wait a few years while land values go up while they do nothing and reap the reward.

[Jim30]

9 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

 

a friend is a site manager for taylor wimpey, surprisingly they dont pay a lot less than anyone else for mats and labour. They have endless dirt cheap land is where they make the money. Sites bought years ago for a pittance per m2. It's why they rarely build newly acquired sites, they cant make enough on them. They wait a few years while land values go up while they do nothing and reap the reward.

 

That makes sense I guess 

[Jim30]

13 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

you have chosen an expensive build as well using ICF, i really wanted to try it but its double the cost of brick and block so couldn't justify the cost and also i hate render.

 

You have the budget for a traditional build to get a watertight shell easily. the £££ is finishing from that point.

My (naive) understanding was that what I saved on labour costs etc made up for the extra ICF costs. I'm not sure the wife will wait 18 months while I try to build it traditionally 😂

[Conor]

16 minutes ago, Jim30 said:

My footprint would only be about half yours (and I don't like underfloor heating) but I'm starting to feel like this might have to wait until a lottery win! 

Unfortunately you're at the mercy of economies of scale. Even though you are building relatively small footprint, you still have the same service, foundation, drainage, landscaping, roof, etc costs of a two story build on the same footprint. You'd be better off building a two story on a 65m² footprint. 

 

We came in at £1300m² on a 115m² footprint, but over three stories. I took time off work and we did a lot ourselves.

[Jim30]

21 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

I think you need to nail down some details, 1 or 2 storey.  1 storey has a foot print twice the size as a two storey, but no need for and upstairs floor or stairs. A square building with rooms in roof has a good form factor, so requires less insulation for the same heat loss compared to a long single storey with vaulted ceilings. It also requires less foundation, wall etc.

 

From your list not seeing framing out internal walls, internal doors, second fix joinery, plasterboard, plastering or taping, you need to allow cost for ventilation, window budget looks low for triple glazed windows, you may be better with good double thanks cheap triple glazed.

Probably 2 story, fairly simple box, thanks re triple glazing...and all that I've missed. 

[Jim30]

5 minutes ago, Conor said:

Unfortunately you're at the mercy of economies of scale. Even though you are building relatively small footprint, you still have the same service, foundation, drainage, landscaping, roof, etc costs of a two story build on the same footprint. You'd be better off building a two story on a 65m² footprint. 

 

We came in at £1300m² on a 115m² footprint, but over three stories. I took time off work and we did a lot ourselves.

2 storey on 65m2 footprint is probably a more realistic version and I'll also be taking time off work (and living on rice and beans). 

[JohnMo]

The other thing to note.

 

Changes on paper cost cost very little, a change while building generally cost for the delete and the new, plus 10 other things you haven't thought about.

 

Once you start building change nothing, when on a tight budget.

 

Insulation - EPS is way cheaper than PIR, but you need 50% more EPS for the same insulation values. But it's still cheaper.

 

DIY UFH is simple enough and cheap, you just need to be methodical, it's also makes best use of a heat pump efficiency.

 

Bathrooms are generally expensive, plan to one for building control and possibly another later when funds allow.

 

Shop around for everything big savings can be made

[Thorfun]

39 minutes ago, Jim30 said:

Thanks Dave, it's starting to sound like I'm living in cloud cuckoo land. 

not necessarily...

37 minutes ago, Jim30 said:

My footprint would only be about half yours (and I don't like underfloor heating) but I'm starting to feel like this might have to wait until a lottery win! 

ufh pipes are relatively inexpensive to purchase and laying them is pretty darn simple. i've just finished our ground floor with 1.1km of ufh pipes and it took me a working week with occassional help from my wife on the staple gun

21 minutes ago, Jim30 said:

My (naive) understanding was that what I saved on labour costs etc made up for the extra ICF costs. I'm not sure the wife will wait 18 months while I try to build it traditionally 😂

labour costs are the killer in a self-build so if you can do the work yourself then you'll save bucket loads.

 

i think with material costs the way they are at the moment £1500/m² is pushing it but you could get to not far off that which is why i don't think you're in cuckoo land. using ICF will be a quicker shell build but be aware that doing the work yourself will take a LOT of time! so if your wife won't wait 18 months and you're not using a main contractor then i think that'll be the sticking point rather than funds. 😉

 

don't let some naysayers on here dissuade you from self-building. it's not a great time to be doing a self-build due to material costs but i don't think they'll come down much more and never back to the previous levels. i'm just sourcing plasterboard for our build at the moment and there's currently a shortage and a 2-3 week wait, and we all know that shortages of materials can potentially lead to price rises!

 

we're not finished with our build yet but it's a stupidly large 450m²-ish property with a basement and i think we'll be coming in at about £1800/m² including professional fees but excluding plot. we've done a lot of the labour ourselves (battening for the external cladding, ufh, insulation, VCL, plumbing, Velux installation and more) but it's taken us over 2 years to get to the stage where we're interviewing plasterers.

[Jim30]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

not necessarily...

ufh pipes are relatively inexpensive to purchase and laying them is pretty darn simple. i've just finished our ground floor with 1.1km of ufh pipes and it took me a working week with occassional help from my wife on the staple gun

labour costs are the killer in a self-build so if you can do the work yourself then you'll save bucket loads.

 

i think with material costs the way they are at the moment £1500/m² is pushing it but you could get to not far off that which is why i don't think you're in cuckoo land. using ICF will be a quicker shell build but be aware that doing the work yourself will take a LOT of time! so if your wife won't wait 18 months and you're not using a main contractor then i think that'll be the sticking point rather than funds. 😉

 

don't let some naysayers on here dissuade you from self-building. it's not a great time to be doing a self-build due to material costs but i don't think they'll come down much more and never back to the previous levels. i'm just sourcing plasterboard for our build at the moment and there's currently a shortage and a 2-3 week wait, and we all know that shortages of materials can potentially lead to price rises!

 

we're not finished with our build yet but it's a stupidly large 450m²-ish property with a basement and i think we'll be coming in at about £1800/m² including professional fees but excluding plot. we've done a lot of the labour ourselves (battening for the external cladding, ufh, insulation, VCL, plumbing, Velux installation and more) but it's taken us over 2 years to get to the stage where we're interviewing plasterers.

I appreciate your comments and think I want to have your build! 

Seriously though, the rise of materials etc is a very valid point. I was thinking that with a quicker completed icf shell I'd be able to work (very hard) through the winter to get the bathroom and kitchen up and running......and somewhere to sleep of course! 

Much to consider. 

[saveasteading]

Lots of good advice here. I will just add:

 

Don't be disheartened that it is complex. It is a unique project.  But do remember that almost everyone will say it was harder than they expected and cost more.

 

Always allow contingency. Firstly for straight omission errors, secondly for surprises and problems. 10%.

 

For the cheapest price stick to a proven design. No need to start from scratch.  Nothing trendy: cavity wall, or timber frame to an off-the-shelf design. 

 

The costs you show are, as others say, tight.  

 

Weather. It will affect the job at some stage.

 

Whatever timescale you have in mind, add at least 6 months.

 

Don't expect to make money. Do expect much higher quality than the mass developers.

 

Keep reading.

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

i've just finished our ground floor with 1.1km of ufh pipes

Conversely my 192m2 floor only has about 600m.

 

Build of ICF depends on system used. I did our walls in Durisol, 70m perimeter and up to 3.5m high, two of us neither done building work, took us 4 weeks doing 8 hour days x 5 days a week. That was completed the 4 weeks before Christmas.

[Jim30]

7 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Conversely my 192m2 floor only has about 600m.

 

Build of ICF depends on system used. I did our walls in Durisol, 70m perimeter and up to 3.5m high, two of us neither done building work, took us 4 weeks doing 8 hour days x 5 days a week. That was completed the 4 weeks before Christmas.

I read the thread where you detail this build, it was inspirational, but, not 100% sure about Durisol.... Maybe I need some more cash! 

[Jim30]

22 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Lots of good advice here. I will just add:

 

Don't be disheartened that it is complex. It is a unique project.  But do remember that almost everyone will say it was harder than they expected and cost more.

 

Always allow contingency. Firstly for straight omission errors, secondly for surprises and problems. 10%.

 

For the cheapest price stick to a proven design. No need to start from scratch.  Nothing trendy: cavity wall, or timber frame to an off-the-shelf design. 

 

The costs you show are, as others say, tight.  

 

Weather. It will affect the job at some stage.

 

Whatever timescale you have in mind, add at least 6 months.

 

Don't expect to make money. Do expect much higher quality than the mass developers.

 

Keep reading.

Wasn't looking to make money, the plan is to build our "forever" home but a energy efficient house with large garden is the plan. Would rather do as much as possible ourselves as cheaper and we won't "Bodge it and Leggit" on a Friday 😉

[Bozza]

agree with all other posts.

 

With posts like this I always recommend you look at :

 

https://www.dan-wood.co.uk

 

their prices do not include foundations nor kitchens.   So them being turnkey,  you can price southwards for a true self build.   But of course they would have economies of scale that you wouldn’t.

 

What you have to factor in with a modest budget / small build is that if a decent plot comes up you are likely to be in competition with others wishing to build a bigger house and thus someone with a bigger budget.  Depends where you wish to build & plot prices etc.

 

If you have a decent paid job one thing you could consider doing is sticking with your job perhaps working overtime or second job combined with saving like buggery for a few years.  During that time pick up bargains that you can stockpile for a future build.    There are bargains around.  Regardless of how competent a DIYer you are sometimes with self build some elements can be a false economy not to get trades in though.

 

I sometimes wonder of the logic of those grand designs shows when “IT expert Jimmy” gives up his £80k salary to go on the tools for 5 years and lives in a caravan in a mud pit and rarely sees his kids etc.
 

If you wish to share your relevant circumstances it may help us to help you identify a potential pathway to your dream.  Some of us have had to park, or adjust, our self build dreams for a few years until financially able to self build.  
 

If it were me and you are working age what with interest rates as they are I’d work more and save more for next few years.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Bozza

[Jenki]

4 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

you have chosen an expensive build as well using ICF, i really wanted to try it but its double the cost of brick and block so couldn't justify the cost and also i hate render.

 

You have the budget for a traditional build to get a watertight shell easily. the £££ is finishing from that point.

For me, the jury is out on this..  

Can you build block / block cheaper than ICF 100% Yes.  Can you get the same levels of insulation and air tightness for the same money?  there's the detail.  My budget is low, so much so, I can't even type the figure, but I'm building ICF (100% DIY), will we run out of money yes.  will the house be very thermally efficient / airtight  / watertight and heated before then Yes.

There's so much extra work in time and money getting block built as efficient as ICF. Once the ICF is up its insulated and air tight. 

@jim30 If your  getting trades in and a hands off approach your budget is way too low - sorry.