ProDave Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 The simple solution is for one of the automation / smart switch providers to make a smart switch with changeover contacts aka an intermediate light switch. Then you could wire conventional light switches, any number of them in each room, AND a smart switch that would all work together. And if the smart switch died, it could easily be bypassed leaving just the conventional switches until you could fix the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 With the Phillips Hue system, isn't all the controls built into the bulb. So normal wall switches and wiring, just a remote to loose down the back of the sofa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Yeah dumb with a smart overlay for me that can be overridden / upgraded easily. That means proper wiring with neutrals everywhere and cat 6 with PoE everywhere. Proper switches. By all means wire everything back radially so it can be 'smart'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, joth said: Would your other half or a new owner of the property or an electrician fix easily if you are not around? - most likely not, but a growing network of professional Loxone installers exits so I'm less worried about this than when I decided to go with it in 2018 this was the main reason I wanted to go for less of a bespoke system and decided on Loxone. if I were to get hit by a bus on my way to Screwfix (seems to be the only place I go these days) then SWMBO could find a local Loxone installer to maintain the system rather than trying to figure out home assistant or some other open source freebie system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, ProDave said: The simple solution is for one of the automation / smart switch providers to make a smart switch with changeover contacts aka an intermediate light switch. Then you could wire conventional light switches, any number of them in each room, AND a smart switch that would all work together. And if the smart switch died, it could easily be bypassed leaving just the conventional switches until you could fix the problem. Yes, a lot of the shelly back boxes work like this. I have them in outbuildings (garage, shed, garden lights) and generally work great. My main gripe is the smart connection is wifi only (unless you go for the very expensive and more limited 'pro' stuff) and the wifi occasionally drops out (especially if installed in metal surface mount boxes, like I have in the garage, lol). At least when it does loose wifi, the hardwired backup works well. They're also a bit of a pain to manage at scale (manually commissioning, programming and keeping up to date 10s of switches would be a PITA) and its not so easy to get feedback through their API when the state is changed via the hard-wired switch But the concept for semi-distributed smarts is sound. It is what KNX is attempting to be, albeit rather long in the tooth now. 2 hours ago, SteamyTea said: With the Phillips Hue system, isn't all the controls built into the bulb. So normal wall switches and wiring, just a remote to loose down the back of the sofa. yeah I did something similar by writing and pushing custom EspHome firmware into various Hue rip-off colour change bulbs. It works... but again, managing it at scale (and, wifi flakiness, and the more bespoke nature of the install) meant I backed off doing it for more than a couple toy applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnb Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Centrally wired lights for me. I took a risk on not putting in T&E to the switch locations, only Cat6. My logic is that I can fit either "smart" or dumb relays in my lighting enclosure connected over the Cat6 to a physical switch should the DMX units fail to the point where I can't repair/replace it. I may live to regret this... we'll see in a few years! I have a couple of rules for home automation: 1. Basic functions need to be available in the event of some failure. (no lights because no internet is not a good plan.... no lights because no electricity is allowed.) 2. No proprietary single-source technology other than what I make myself. (So a Shelly relay is OK, but Loxone tech unfortunately isn't even though I quite like it. Hue bulbs are marginal, but I am excluding them - my rules after all.) 3. Nothing security or even slightly safety related implemented in code. (So no automatic doors based on face recognition...) Everything I am currently usint is either developed in-house (pun intended) or is open source. My test implementation (not buying the real hardware yet!) involves an old laptop running a light weight Linux and number of nodeJS based server applications to interface with the DMX devices, the solar inverter, the MVHR, the temperature/humidity sensors and a Shelly Pro to control the temporary Willis heater based UFH, so more a BMS than just light switches. Literally any device that can run a web browser can access all of the controls for the house all presented with a common user interface, assuming it has permission. If a device fails then I swap it out for another cheap Android/Apple/Windows tablet, RPi or whatever I am using. If an ethernet controlled relay fails it can be swapped for whatever is available with a small update to configuration. There's a few more things to implement, but kitchens and bathrooms are a bit more important now. No home assistant or any of the other automation things are in use (yet), although I don't rule it out at some point if I loose interest in my own stuff - I've done the interesting bit now. And that leads to the biggest risk... It's all built with COTS hardware, but who would want to take on any of my code? SWMBO is a software engineer, but tests have shown that my coding "style" is often not easy to follow. But at least I won't stop supporting my own code while I want my own code to work. Physical switches would have been easier, and if I wanted just on and off would have been cheaper by a long way. But if I did that then I wouldn't have had anything like as much fun doing it. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Guys ! Some of you are worried that if you pop your clogs SWMBO can’t do a Ubuntu upgrade 😊 I really wouldn’t worry . She’ll sell the house as is and run off with a younger model anyway . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 14 minutes ago, Pocster said: She’ll sell the house as is and run off with a younger model anyway More likely move the lad in and abuse the marital bed before you have breathed your last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Changing systems is a good excuse - early in the development cycle - to run both systems in parallel. Lots of evidence to show what happens if you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 SWMBO insisted on ‘normal ‘ light switches in some places . So we have these dimmers ( with neutral ) light can be controlled without any HA but is also zigbee - so best of both worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Following my no electronics principle means only conventioal hard wired. Exceptional reliability proven over many decades. You are are welcome to put a bunch of poorly designed and manufacted, soon to be obsolete electronics in your house. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 When I moved into my latest cottage the lounge had a newfangled touch dimmer switch and it would randomly turn the light on or off, I changed it to a “normal” switch 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, joe90 said: When I moved into my latest cottage the lounge had a newfangled touch dimmer switch and it would randomly turn the light on or off, I changed it to a “normal” switch 😎 It’s not random . I’m turning it on / off for my amusement 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 30 minutes ago, Pocster said: It’s not random . I’m turning it on Funny that, I get turned on, randomly, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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