Global warming is in fact entirely natural and has already peaked

[Adsibob]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

It's climate denialism presented by the Environment Spokesman of the former* minor far-right political party For Britain.

 

*According to the Wikipedia page the party has disbanded, though their website is still up.

jesus christ that party is scary. And stupid! Look at their mini manifesto; so much of it contradicts itself!

[RichardL]

19 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

jesus christ that party is scary. And stupid! Look at their mini manifesto; so much of it contradicts itself!

I started reading - but just saw ' ban, end, stop' over and over....

Doesn't feel like a free minimal state model - more like some sort of overlord dictator

[SteamyTea]

18 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

jesus christ that party is scary. And stupid! Look at their mini manifesto; so much of it contradicts itself!

They should have put a candidate up against George Eustice.  Camborne residences would have voted for them.

[Iceverge]

5 hours ago, Kelvin said:

All likely disasters waiting to happen with unknown consequences. 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

 

I'd be very against anything like that. There is so much we have left to learn about our planet, and we have a bit of a track record when it comes to recommending something, to which later is pulled because its dangerous or has the opposite effect!

 

All the more reason to start thinking about it. 

 

For a future us, activity managing a planets climate will be no more complex than turning up or down the thermostat. Tiny tweets over several millennia will keep it "just right". At least in the climate zone of whoever's controls the dial. 

 

With the correct equipment I imagine we could probably do it now. I don't know where we're going to find a space mirror large enough however. 

 

 

 

 

[Kelvin]

You’ll have women saying it’s too cold and men saying it’s too but on a Global scale. 

[Dave Jones]

problem with the whole subject, the peddlers of climate change are also the wokerati.

 

So if it grunts and squeals its likely a pig.

 

One things for sure, jack $hit we can do about it with china operating more coal fired power stations than we have McDonalds.

[Mike]

29 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

china operating more coal fired power stations than we have McDonalds

China's position on coal is confused, but their proportion of electricity generated from coal is declining. And they already generate more from solar and wind than either Europe or the US, and are installing more of both much faster than Europe & the US.

• Reuters: China widens renewable energy supply lead with wind power push
• Reuters: China's new coal plants set to become a costly second fiddle to renewables

[Post and beam]

I am old enough to remember being a Primary school kid in the late 60's and early 70's. All the talk then was of the impending ice age. The models, and scientists promoting them, were quite sure of it. Just sayin'....

 

 

And, as it happens we are in fact still in an ice age.

[SteamyTea]

23 minutes ago, Post and beam said:

I am old enough to remember being a Primary school kid in the late 60's and early 70's. All the talk then was of the impending ice age. The models, and scientists promoting them, were quite sure of it. Just sayin'....

No, what you are actually doing to misquoting and misunderstanding the research.

Here is a very short summary.

https://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/06/04/the-1970s-ice-age-myth-and-time-magazine-covers-by-david-kirtley

 

[Nick Thomas]

Mebbe stop listening to fascists, flat-earthers, "wokerati", the others, and listen to, uh, climate scientists, about it instead?

 

 

Just a thought.

[SteamyTea]

17 hours ago, Adsibob said:

jesus christ that party is scary. And stupid! Look at their mini manifesto; so much of it contradicts itself!

What is wrong with this:

 

"Equalise the retirement age for men and women at
63"

 

Would suit me down to the ground.

[Post and beam]

11 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

No, what you are actually doing to misquoting and misunderstanding the research.

With respect i dont agree.

I was not doing any research in primary school or reading any. But i do accurately remember what the discussions were about. It is irrelevant to my statement whether it was accurate at the time or not, the discussion was the discussion. My teachers were concerned.

As it happens i have no doubt that global warming is real, i do not believe i am misunderstanding any research today either.

[Kelvin]

Maybe so but disinformation and the sky is falling in newspaper headlines isn’t a new phenomenon either. 

[MikeGrahamT21]

3 minutes ago, Post and beam said:

With respect i dont agree.

I was not doing any research in primary school or reading any. But i do accurately remember what the discussions were about. It is irrelevant to my statement whether it was accurate at the time or not, the discussion was the discussion. My teachers were concerned.

As it happens i have no doubt that global warming is real, i do not believe i am misunderstanding any research today either.

 

I can't even remember what happened yesterday never mind 30 odd years ago! 🤣

[Nick Thomas]

2 minutes ago, Post and beam said:

i do accurately remember what the discussions were about.

 

My understanding of the 70s "new ice age" stuff is that popular culture was all over it, but actual science - including climate scientists - very quickly established it was not happening. "Science journalists" have always had a lot to answer for on this front.

 

Fringe opinions often get preferential coverage simply because they're exciting. Hence Betteridge's law.

[joe90]

My two Penney’s worth….pollution of all kinds is killing the earth and us, as David Attenborough said years ago “the biggest threat to this planet is man”.    (Perhaps we need a good pandemic 🤷‍♂️)

[ProDave]

2 minutes ago, joe90 said:

(Perhaps we need a good pandemic 🤷‍♂️)

We have scraped by the last 70 years avoiding a hot war.  I don't believe we will manage to avoid that for much longer.  

[joe90]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/02/beware-gaia-theory-climate-crisis-earth

 

I did wonder If Covid was part of the planets plan to heal itself 🙄

Edited April 26, 2023 by joe90

[ProDave]

3 minutes ago, joe90 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/02/beware-gaia-theory-climate-crisis-earth

 

I did wonder If Covid was part of the planets plan to heal itself 🙄

I thoroughly agree we need to stop destroying the planet and stop over populating it.  If we solve that, the global warming problem will probably solve itself.

[SteamyTea]

17 minutes ago, Post and beam said:

But i do accurately remember what the discussions were about

Like most predicative models, a number of scenarios are created, one or two of those scenarios showed extreme cooling, there were also scenarios that showed extreme heating.

What then happens is that a probability of likelihood is attached, then all that data, along with the error bars, is plotted.

That plot, along with other researchers work, is then plotted together, creating a distribution of likelihood (confidence intervals is statistical language).

The readings in the middle are the ones that are most likely to happen, and the ones that tend to get ignored by the popular press and the public.

There is not much news in saying that in a decade the whole Earth will be 0.1°C warmer, but it is a great story if it is projected to be 10°C cooler, or 8°C warmer, especially if you attach a label to it like 'ice age' or 'earth ablaze'.

 

NASA has done some research looking into past models and how accurate they are.

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-models-are-getting-future-warming-projections-right/

 

Below is a plot of the models that were run in 2004, easy to see how well the ensemble line (black) tracks the observed data (red) which is the yearly observations.

You can also see that it (black line) does not get close to the upper and lower limits of the Confidence Intervals of all the models (the ensemble).

The dip in the early 1990s is from a volcanic eruption, Mount Pinatubo.  The models are designed to cater for this, though the actual date of the eruption is unknown until it happens, so is manually inputted.  The important part though is that the 'recovery' time is not adjusted, that is the models doing there thing and predicting future temperatures.

 

 

So let us, on here, not have anymore nonsense about the past prediction of a future ice age, the people researching it back then never said one was coming, so why should we.

[SteamyTea]

31 minutes ago, joe90 said:

David Attenborough said years ago “the biggest threat to this planet is man”.

Was that the same David Attenborough who was, in effect, a climate change denier until the last 12 years or so.

 

24 minutes ago, joe90 said:

If Covid was part of the planets plan to heal itself

Biology, geology and atmospheric chemistry do not have a 'master plan'.

The COVID-19 pandemic was a symptom of poor industrial food production, easy travel between infected areas and non affected areas, very poor science understanding from world governments.

The Earth, like us, carries the scares of its past.  Entropy ensures that it will never return to what it was before, which is what worries me most about governments setting targets on such things as tree planting, bio-diversity, green spaces etc.  Done with the best intentions, but usually misses the point.

I get told off for posting up stuff, but bollocks to that, here is an interesting article about how fast, and effective, recolonization can happen.

 

Environment

Great Pacific Garbage Patch hosts stable community of coastal animals

Arthropods and molluscs dwelling on plastic and other rubbish in the middle of the Pacific Ocean seem to be part of a new type of ecological community inadvertently created by humans

By Madeleine Cuff

17 April 2023

 

 

 

Rubbish pulled from the Great Pacific Garbage Patch hosts a community of animals that normally live on coasts

Citizen of the Planet/Alamy Stock Photo

 

Coastal sea creatures have been found living and reproducing on the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, thousands of kilometres away from their natural habitat. The discovery could reshape our understanding of where coastal marine creatures can survive.

The Great Pacific Garbage Patch is a vast collection of waste – much of it plastic – located between Hawaii and California, covering an estimated 1.6 million square kilometres of ocean.

Researchers have previously found ocean-dwelling marine species living around the patch, but now it seems that coastal creatures have also established a permanent home there.

 

Read more:

The Great Pacific Garbage Patch is packed with floating life

 

James Carlton at the Williams College and Mystic Seaport Museum in Connecticut and his colleagues collected 105 items of plastic waste from the garbage patch between November 2018 and January 2019. More than 70 per cent of the plastic items had evidence of coastal species living on them, with organisms including shrimp-like arthropods, sea anemones and molluscs identified. In fact, coastal species outnumbered pelagic species that live in the open sea by a ratio of 3 to 1, the team found.

The coastal creatures seemed to be permanently living and reproducing on the plastic patch, says Carlton. “These are species that have rafted out with coastal debris and have now successfully found essentially a novel habitat out there,” he says.

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The discovery upends the assumption that coastal species couldn’t survive out in the open ocean and helps to solidify evidence that new types of ecological “neopelagic communities” are establishing themselves on plastic debris in the open ocean. “This has reset my thinking about how coastal species can survive in an environment in which they’ve not evolved,” says Carlton.

We don’t yet know how this plastic ecosystem functions, including what the coastal creatures eat or how they interact with ocean-dwelling fish species.

Carlton warns that floating communities like this one could pose a threat to coastal ecosystems. It has created a new epicentre of coastal species that could travel as invasive species into new coastal habitats, he says. “I would fully expect that as a result of this we will see more invasions of coastal zones,” he says.

“This is a fascinating and important study,” says David Aldridge at the University of Cambridge. “It makes good sense that mass accumulations of plastic debris offshore can create artificial islands which support communities we would typically associate with coastal habitats. The authors rightly raise concerns about how these novel habitats can drive change in the wider ecology of the open ocean and assist in the spread of non-native species.”

 

Journal reference

Nature Ecology & Evolution DOI: 10.1038/s41559-023-01997-y

[joe90]

30 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Was that the same David Attenborough who was, in effect, a climate change denier until the last 12 years or so.

Yes but at least he listened to evidence and saw the light.

[SteamyTea]

10 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Yes but at least he listened to evidence and saw the light.

Only after publicly ignoring it for 40 years.

There is a term put on those sorts, Woke.

 

[joe90]

13 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Only after publicly ignoring it for 40 years.

There is a term put on those sorts, Woke.

 

I disagree, do you still believe everything you “knew” 40 years ago despite more information being available since then 🤷‍♂️. I listened to that, so woke comes  from awake! There are things I have changed my mind about over the years due to reading or listening to debate. (Some of it building related due to this forum)  As your link says, woke  is used as a bad term, frankly there is nothing wrong(in my opinion) with changing one’s mind after more facts and debate come to light.

Edited April 26, 2023 by joe90

[Temp]

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-65339934

 

Quote

 

Recent, rapid ocean warming ahead of El Niño alarms scientists

 

A recent, rapid heating of the world's oceans has alarmed scientists concerned that it will add to global warming. This month, the global sea surface hit a new record high temperature. It has never warmed this much, this quickly. Scientists don't fully understand why this has happened. But they worry that, combined with other weather events, the world's temperature could reach a concerning new level by the end of next year. Experts believe that a strong El Niño weather event - a weather system that heats the ocean - will also set in over the next months. Warmer oceans can kill off marine life, lead to more extreme weather and raise sea levels. They are also less efficient at absorbing planet-warming greenhouse gases.

 

An important new study, published last week with little fanfare, highlights a worrying development. Over the past 15 years, the Earth has accumulated almost as much heat as it did in the previous 45 years, with most of the extra energy going into the oceans. This is having real world consequences - not only did the overall temperature of the oceans hit a new record in April this year, in some regions the difference from the long term was enormous.

 

In March, sea surface temperatures off the east coast of North America were as much as 13.8C higher than the 1981-2011 average.

 

Continues