Housewide audio

[Pocster]

Hey all!

 

I think I asked something similar ages ago will try again as I can't remember.

Have a large open plan room 7m x 10m with long,dining and kitchen in.

 

My plan was to treat those as 3 zones i.e. separate (if I wish) music control for each zone).

Dining smallest area, then dining then lounge largest.

 

But I can't work out what ceiling speakers and positions I should get. I want quality audio not just background 'noise'.

Nut (for example) is the lounge where I might have 6 ceiling speakers do I do 3 down one side left audio, 3 down right right audio. Anyone got any advice on the single speakers that offer left & right in one speaker?. Or should I do L,R  - R,L - L,R i.e. 'destroy' the left/right balance.

 

I guess I wish to know what I should do before I purchase said speakers!!! (perhaps 6 L/R combined speakers????)

[dpmiller]

where are your listening positions?

[Guest Alphonsox]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

But I can't work out what ceiling speakers and positions I should get. I want quality audio not just background 'noise'.

 

That's your problem right there  You can have quality audio or you can have ceiling speakers but not both. The best you can expect with ceiling speakers is an approximation of the LSO floating somewhere above your head (Unless you lie on the floor for your listening pleasure) . Your ears point forward and that's where the speakers need to be for quality audio.

[RichS]

25 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

where are your listening positions?

 

Usually one each side of your head.

Edited August 4, 2017 by RichS

[Guest Alphonsox]

If you insist of ceiling mounts then take a look at one's from KEF. Probably the best I've heard.

[AliG]

You'd never listen to two different things in the room at once. How about just getting front facing speakers at one end of the room rather than lots of ceiling mounted speakers.

 

You could position 2 Sonos Play 1s at one end, I am guessing the lounge end where you would most likely be listening. You could use turn them up if you wanted to hear them in the kitchen end.

 

My wife uses a Play 1 when in the bath and the sound permeates most of the house, one single room should be fine.

Edited August 4, 2017 by AliG

[Pocster]

Hmmmm, I see the issue is my biology 

 

Wall speakers would be better audio wise I guess for stereo accuracy . But ummm, yeah; I know what I want but I don't..

Looking at Polk rc6s ......

[Pocster]

6 minutes ago, AliG said:

You'd never listen to two different things in the room at once. How about just getting front facing speakers at one end of the room rather than lots of ceiling mounted speakers.

 

You could position 2 Sonos Play 1s at one end, I am guessing the lounge end where you would most likely be listening. You could use turn them up if you wanted to hear them in the kitchen end.

 

My wife uses a Play 1 when in the bath and the sound permeates most of the house, one single room should be fine.

Of course you never would.

But my assumption is *perhaps* in the kitchen with no one else in you might want to party!!. Also it's quite a large room so to have wall mounted speakers at the far end is fine to listen to in the kitchen. But anyone sat say 'listening' in the lounge will get blasted.

I can adjust the volume or whatever per zone even with the same stream - all raspberry pi and max2play powered! 

Edited August 4, 2017 by pocster

[AliG]

That' fair. That is kind of the problem I have at the moment. When we move I am putting speakers in the bathroom ceiling. At the moment my wife puts a Play 1 outside the bathroom and whacks up the volume so that she can hear to through the door. This means everyone else in the house gets the pleasure of her music.

 

You could use Raspberry PIs or Google Chromecasts, three Chromecasts could each be connected to a a couple of powered in ceiling speakers creating the three zones. I don't know what speakers to recommend, I'd just be Googling them. This would seem easier than putting amps in the ceiling, getting a multi zone amp controlled remotely would be more difficult.

 

You might have to watch whether the ceiling is fire rated and if putting speakers in it would be an issue.

Edited August 4, 2017 by AliG

[Guest Alphonsox]

My solution has been to put all funds into the best possible 2-channel system for the main room. This gives the best quality audio I can afford at a single point with the side affect that the rest of the house (and the neighbours) can enjoy it if I turn it up a bit.  I would far rather have a single good system than multiple sub-optimum boxes scattered around the house.

[Pocster]

21 minutes ago, AliG said:

That' fair. That is kind of the problem I have at the moment. When we move I am putting speakers in the bathroom ceiling. At the moment my wife puts a Play 1 outside the bathroom and whacks up the volume so that she can hear to through the door. This means everyone else in the house gets the pleasure of her music.

 

You could use Raspberry PIs or Google Chromecasts, three Chromecasts could each be connected to a a couple of powered in ceiling speakers creating the three zones. I don't know what speakers to recommend, I'd just be Googling them. This would seem easier than putting amps in the ceiling, getting a multi zone amp controlled remotely would be more difficult.

 

You might have to watch whether the ceiling is fire rated and if putting speakers in it would be an issue.

I use iPeng to link together multiple squeezeboxes as 1 zone . 

[Guest Alphonsox]

6 minutes ago, pocster said:

I use iPeng to link together multiple squeezeboxes as 1 zone . 

 I use a single Squeezebox as the main source for my system - Can't get on with IPeng though....I use a laptop in preference.

[AliG]

What would be ideal in this situation would be a multichannel amp that switches on the channels automatically when it senses an input.

 

I have managed to find a few such products but they are so expensive it would be cheaper just to buy an individual amp for each pair of speakers or active speakers.

 

The cheapest I found is this which could do six pairs of stereo speakers around the house. There may well be others available.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Hi-Fi-Home-Audio/Dayton-MA1240a-Multi-Zone-12-Channel-Amplifier/B003DKVZHQ

[AliG]

This is a lot simpler although not as neatly integrated.

 

I have to preface that I am a Sonos fan as it is just easy to use and set up.

 

If you out a play 1 at each end of the room or 3 play 1s in the room then you can give each a name and make it a separate zone. You can then pair them to provide stereo or combine them all if you are having a party.

 

3x£180 and just plug them in, all sorted.

 

You can also then unplug them and plug them in in other places if you want to.

 

When looking at all these options for a new house this was one of the most attractive things to me. I thought about putting speakers in the hall for parties, then thought why not just unplug a few of the Sonos speakers and move them in these instances when they are only occasionally used. Thus you can cut the cost of a system considerably.

[Guest Alphonsox]

The Sonos systems are easy to use but have some fundamental limitations that make them unusable for me. Sonos has a hard limit of 65K tracks and a maximum of 16bits/48k sample rates. This probably doesn't effect too many people but makes their systems a no-go for me. 

[AliG]

I had great plans to fill up a NAS with music and movies to stream around the house, but now it is so easy just to stream things. I found an article saying that Sonos found 92% of users streamed 2 years ago, it is probably 95% now so unfortunately they won't be in much of a hurry to help people using a media server.

 

Sonos gave us 12 months of Deezer Elite+ which uses FLAC 1411kbps sampling (not quite the level @Alphonsox is looking for but Cd quality). I liked it, but when it ran out I allowed it to go back to 320kbps, I can tell it is less detailed but no one else in the house seems to care and it is cheaper. The same way that a lot of people struggle to notice the difference between HD and SD TV which I find pretty glaring.

 

 

 

 

[Triassic]

8 hours ago, Alphonsox said:

The Sonos systems are easy to use but have some fundamental limitations that make them unusable for me. Sonos has a hard limit of 65K tracks and a maximum of 16bits/48k sample rates. This probably doesn't effect too many people but makes their systems a no-go for me. 

65,000 tracks, that must be at least 12 solid years of music. Why?

[Plumbersmateuk]

OK my first contribution to this site...............

 

I had in my last house (long before Sonos etc.) multi room audio and video, my kids were the envy of all.

When I moved into my present house (thank god for plasterboard) I put in multi room using a Rotel amp, 8 way, 2 input AV Link to ceiling speakers all hard wired.

 

After years of collecting and working in the music industry I have my music on a server and Sonos etc just doesn't work for me.

 

I am going to build, as you can see from my Intro recently, so done a load of looking around and physically looking and listening, so  the way I am going is the Ras-pi route and this is what I am going to use/do albeit not my idea, so kudos to Cédric Locqueneux ............https://support.hifiberry.com/hc/en-us/articles/205699981-How-to-build-a-multiroom-audio-system-based-on-Raspberry-Pi-and-Hifiberry

 

 

Hope this helps

[Pocster]

Sonos was ok but for a dedicated system it did quite frequently have errors e.g track not play for no apparent reason ; even wired so not a wifi issues and expensive  . Raspberry pi with hiberry amp is nice :-) . Integrates well with indigo on a Mac for home automation . I have dedicated iPads as controllers wall mounted for audio , lights , Cctv etc . Can also control all from phone as well . Raspberry pi with amp cheap :-)) . If you want top top audio ( my ears won't tell the difference ) then probably no good . Also a NAS for audio source .

Edited August 5, 2017 by pocster

[Onoff]

Open all the doors in the house and turn it up REALLY LOUD!

[PeterW]

Just now, Onoff said:

Open all the doors in the house and turn it up REALLY LOUD!

 

I used to do that ... NAD amp and Mission speakers that could wake the dead on setting 7..... and it went up to 10..!

[SteamyTea]

 

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

Open all the doors in the house and turn it up REALLY LOUD!

Lol 

 

after 5 years of fighting the neighbours over planning and the enforcement officer out just last week ( waste of time of course ) there is good reason to p*ss the neighbours off !

[Onoff]

15 minutes ago, pocster said:

Lol 

 

after 5 years of fighting the neighbours over planning and the enforcement officer out just last week ( waste of time of course ) there is good reason to p*ss the neighbours off !

 

I don't really know my neighbours. Can't really see them anyway!

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

I used to do that ... NAD amp and Mission speakers that could wake the dead on setting 7..... and it went up to 10..!

On my beloved, since sold to buy my first van ?, Yamaha / kef setup I just smiled to myself every time I wound it up. 

Yamaha DSP A1 ( still got my A2 now as it's pretty hard to get the power ), Kef speakers :-

104.2 front

95.2 ctr

35's front effect 

65's rear

 

Mate wouldn't sell me his Velodyne marble sub, but with 110w per channel RMS bi-amped into the 104.2's you couldn't keep your lunch down. 

Neighbour the other side of the main road asked me once if I'd just watched Black Hawk Down. I said why? She replied "cos the fackin helicopter sounded like it was landing in my back garden".

Tres bien.