Garden outbuilding height increase

[Marko]

Hi,

 

I’ve currently a timber garden room. Been there a year or so. As it stands, it has a flat rubber roof with an overall height of 2.5m. The building is also within 2m of the garden boundary. 
I would like to change the roof to a tiled apex, which will obviously increase the o/a height, ending up at something around the 2.8m mark. 
Anyone have any idea how planning permission would work for this, and the approach to take for the best possible outcome? I’m just at the beginnings of thinking about it, so I haven’t done to much digging around on the interweb yet. Thanks! 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Marko

[JohnMo]

I thought the 2.5m height was at the eaves, not the apex. Otherwise anything other than flat roof would be too low to use.

[joe90]

From my readings if the building is within 2m of the boundary the overall height is restricted to 2.5m. If more than 2m from the boundary eaves at 2.5m and ridge at 4m.

Edited April 23, 2023 by joe90

[Dave Jones]

Outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not needing planning permission, subject to the following limits and conditions:

• No outbuilding on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation.
• Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.
• Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse.
• No verandas, balconies or raised platforms (a platform must not exceed 0.3 metres in height)
• No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.
• In National Parks, the Broads, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty and World Heritage Sites the maximum area to be covered by buildings, enclosures, containers and pools more than 20 metres from the house to be limited to 10 square metres.
• On designated land* buildings, enclosures, containers and pools at the side of properties will require planning permission.
• Within the curtilage of listed buildings any outbuilding will require planning permission.

*The term "original house" means the house as it was first built or as it stood on 1 July 1948 (if it was built before that date). Although you may not have built an extension to the house, a previous owner may have done so.

[Marko]

From my understanding, in my case, the building is currently permitted development, because it is no more than 2.5m high, overall. But, as I intend to increase the overall height, I’m not sure if it will be alteration to an already existing structure, or a new planning application altogether. 

[Temp]

6 hours ago, joe90 said:

From my readings if the building is within 2m of the boundary the overall height is restricted to 2.5m. If more than 2m from the boundary eaves at 2.5m and ridge at 4m.

 

This.

 

If within 2m the whole building must be under 2.5m

 

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/outbuildings/Outbuildings.pdf

[DevilDamo]

You will require Planning and providing the increase in height does not have a significant impact on the street scene and/or on neighbours, then there should be no reason why Planning would not be approved. 

[Canski]

I put mine in with the planning application. Although I aimed to keep within the 2.5 m rule here were no heights on the planning drawings and it got passed. Since then I have reduced the ground level by about 400 mm and am tempted to raise the building by about 75 mm to give me a bit of extra room inside. Dare I ? 

[joe90]

Well if they do notice (they never measured my build with a height limit) you could always act dumm and apply for retro permission. 😎

[Canski]

3 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Well if they do notice (they never measured my build with a height limit) you could always act dumm and apply for retro permission. 😎

That’s what I thought. The roof will be lower than the neighbours fence I think. 

[Nickfromwales]

On 24/04/2023 at 18:38, Canski said:

I put mine in with the planning application. Although I aimed to keep within the 2.5 m rule here were no heights on the planning drawings and it got passed. Since then I have reduced the ground level by about 400 mm and am tempted to raise the building by about 75 mm to give me a bit of extra room inside. Dare I ? 

The exact reason why I have a digger arriving anytime now, so I can 'sink' the room a bit / have less visual impact for the neighbours etc. 

I'm going to stay 1m away from the boundary and build at or just under the 30m2 rule, as 15m2 just isn't going to give me the space I need. I'll make the roof overhang though, and I'll have a decent maintenance path around the sides and rear, with cover, so it'll be less of a loss tbh. I need to be able to get around for maintenance anyhoo, but at least I'll be drip-dry during the rain.

[Marko]

So, just an update to this. I went ahead and applied for PP. Got an email this moring from the Council saying that they consider the height increase permitted development in accordance with Schedule 2 of the Town and Country Planning Order 2015. Therefore, no planning decison is needed.  I'm baffled by this because the overall increse in height takes it above 2.5m, and the building is within 2m of all boundaries. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Marko

[joe90]

21 minutes ago, Marko said:

I'm baffled by this

And me!! 🤷‍♂️

[ProDave]

25 minutes ago, Marko said:

So, just an update to this. I went ahead and applied for PP. Got an email this moring from the Council saying that they consider the height increase permitted development in accordance with Schedule 2 of the Town and Country Planning Order 2015. Therefore, no planning decison is needed.  I'm baffled by this because the overall increse in height takes it above 2.5m, and the building is within 2m of all boundaries. 

Crack on and do it.  Keep a copy of that letter in case someone complains.

[Conor]

37 minutes ago, Marko said:

So, just an update to this. I went ahead and applied for PP. Got an email this moring from the Council saying that they consider the height increase permitted development in accordance with Schedule 2 of the Town and Country Planning Order 2015. Therefore, no planning decison is needed.  I'm baffled by this because the overall increse in height takes it above 2.5m, and the building is within 2m of all boundaries. 

Just checked the wording on my local planning site, and says 2.5m eaves height, does not mention ridge height. So some flexibility in interpretation maybe? Or they just don't want to bother processing such a case 🤣

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Conor

[joe90]

2 minutes ago, Conor said:

Or they just don't want to bother processing such a case

Sounds like it. My reading locally is 2.5m eaves and 4m ridge if more than 2m of a boundary but 2.5 overall if within 2m but more than 1m of the boundary. However one garden building supplier stated if closer than 2m but over 1m then the building within that 2m must not be over 2.5m (so ridge could be higher). @Marco keep that Email safe and crack on (I would).

[Marko]

Thanks all. Yes, I'll do that just in case. But there you go.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Marko

[Temp]

See points 7 and 8 in here it's very clear..

 

On 23/04/2023 at 15:18, Temp said:

 

If within 2m the whole building must be under 2.5m

 

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/outbuildings/Outbuildings.pdf

 

[Marko]

That's why I was bemused by the letter. I'm not going to second guess them though. Like Joe said, I'm keeping the letter just incase anything is brought up in the future. Best thing about it is I get my application fee back 😁 Go toward some more PIR boards. Not that it'll stretch that far with the prices these days!

Edited May 5, 2023 by Marko

[Tony K]

2 hours ago, Marko said:

That's why I was bemused by the letter. I'm not going to second guess them though. Like Joe said, I'm keeping the letter just incase anything is brought up in the future. Best thing about it is I get my application fee back 😁 Go toward some more PIR boards. Not that it'll stretch that far with the prices these days!

 

Be careful @Marko. A letter means nothing, if you want proper confirmation that your outbuilding does not require planning permission then you should apply for a certificate of lawfulness, anything less is simply an informal opinion and subject to change.

 

As others have said, if the building is within two metres of any boundary and if the building is  (or in your case will become) more than 2.5m tall in relation to external ground level then planning permission is absolutely required. Whether you would be applying for the extra height or for the whole building doesn't really matter, it's the same thing either way. 

 

Fun fact, if the ground on which your outbuilding is located is sloped or undulating then you get the benefit of measuring from the highest point. This can mean creating a part-excavated building (as others have mentioned) if you need more head height than would be achieved with a standard 2.5m building on flat ground, but can also mean that should there happen to have been a tall spot of ground within the footprint of your outbuilding before you built it, your building can be up to 2.5m from the top of that tall spot. Which is now hidden below your building, or removed as part of the provision of the building. 

 

Should the local planning authority, who must must have evidence of a breach of planning control to take enforcement action but who cannot ask you to remove the building to expose the original high spot (should it still exist) ultimately decide that, contrary to their informal advice, your building does require planning permission then I wouldn't mind betting that your land was uneven, and higher in the middle of the footprint than around the edges.

 

Now that I come to think about it, I reckon the distance from the top of the highest point of the land the building now sits on to the top of the building, even with the extra roof height, was actually no greater than 2.5m. 

 

Wasn't it? 

[Canski]

I presume that they would accept an initial Topo survey as evidence of previous ground levels. 🤞

[ETC]

On 24/04/2023 at 18:59, joe90 said:

Well if they do notice (they never measured my build with a height limit) you could always act dumm and apply for retro permission. 😎

The secret planning police are always watching - so is Karen next door!!😂

[joe90]

33 minutes ago, ETC said:

The secret planning police are always watching - so is Karen next door!!😂

Actually I think they are too busy unless a complaint is  raised, with my planning fight the planners kept quoting next door as being “X” meters high, when they were out my builder and I went round with a very long piece of wood and measured it and it was about 1200mm higher than they had planning for and it had been completed many years ago, not that I minded it being that high but mine was still lower than theirs. (Another one over on the local planers  😎).

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, ETC said:

The secret planning police are always watching - so is Karen next door!!😂

Tell me about it. I have one. Luckily for me they've clearly used up more than their 50% in PD, so I doubt very much they'd be causing me any grief.

[Nickfromwales]

I'm working on not actively pissing the neighbours off with a monstrous build, but after that I'm just going to fill the space up and worry about a retrospective PP app if I have to.

More fuel for digging out an extra 200mm or so of spoil and dropping the building / ridge height as much as possible. Life's best when everyone is playing nicely together at the end of the day . I'm happy with 2.1m minimum internal head height and a reasonable pitch apex roof ( solar E/W split ) and hopefully nobody will give a toss.