Acceptable gap between frame and structure?

[ggc]

Hello folks.

We recently started our glazing install on our new extension.

The glazing company hasn’t been back for a week or so due to an error with a door that has been ordered incorrectly (50/50 blame with us and the company I feel).

 

Anyway, we are having quite a large shaped, fixed window installed above a sliding door

This was measured by the Sales chap and one of the senior installers.

There is a 30mm gap all around the frame where it (is supposed to) fit against the timbers & masonry.

 

Is this really an acceptable tolerance for a bespoke measured measured job?

Opinions gladly accepted

They haven’t yet fitted the glazing to the frame.

 

We we’re under the impression that the glazing frame should sit in behind the block work, giving a slimmer sight line, then attaching to the timber frame?

 

 

 

Thanks in advance for opinions 

This I feel is just the tip of the iceberg on a badly measured job, or am I being picky?

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by ggc

[nod]

I’ve frames and glass being delivered tomorrow I’ve allied 5 mil all around 

30 is to much 

They could fit a 25 mil add on to get over this 

Poor measure 

[ggc]

9 minutes ago, nod said:

I’ve frames and glass being delivered tomorrow I’ve allied 5 mil all around 

30 is to much 

They could fit a 25 mil add on to get over this 

Poor measure 

Thanks for your answer.

I had read that 5-10mm would be an acceptable tolerance.

Having watched some of Robin Clevit’s videos, he seems to need to “persuade” units into position as tolerances are that close.

[nod]

2 minutes ago, ggc said:

Thanks for your answer.

I had read that 5-10mm would be an acceptable tolerance.

Having watched some of Robin Clevit’s videos, he seems to need to “persuade” units into position as tolerances are that close.

The screws that are in won’t hold the frames They relying on foam doing that 

[ggc]

Just now, nod said:

The screws that are in won’t hold the frames They relying on foam doing that 

Yes, 

similar gaps around some of the rest of the installed windows, which as you say are filled with expanding foam. 
TBH not what I was expecting (nothing ever is, is it)

 

One of the windows expanding foam appears to be deteriorating already after maybe being in situ for almost a fortnight, could it be UV degradation?

(Thought I’d taken a picture of it, but haven’t)

 

[johnhenstock83]

sorry I don't have an answer, but that must be one of the best looking extensions I've ever seen, really good design!

[craig]

1 hour ago, ggc said:

ere is a 30mm gap all around the frame where it (is supposed to) fit against the timbers & masonry.

 

Was he wearing a blindfold when he measured? 10mm all around is all you need, that window is too small for the opening.

[ToughButterCup]

That's not an Oooopsss.....

That's an  "Oh F F sake "

 

Its multiple feckooops like this that gave birth to my signature line

[ggc]

57 minutes ago, johnhenstock83 said:

sorry I don't have an answer, but that must be one of the best looking extensions I've ever seen, really good design!

Thanks for the positivity 

Took us a while to finalise what we wanted

We started off 5 years ago thinking of going partially underground, but the incredible costs soon changed our mind! 😂

 

Popped a mezzanine in to give us extra space needed 

(tbh it is almost 50% bigger in sq/m compared to the bungalow, almost rude for me to call it an extension 😂)

Edited April 13, 2023 by ggc

[ggc]

48 minutes ago, craig said:

 

Was he wearing a blindfold when he measured? 10mm all around is all you need, that window is too small for the opening.

That’s the kind of answer I expected, though didn’t want to hear! 😂🤦🏻‍♂️

 

In your professional opinion, what’s my options?

Am I being unreasonable asking them to manufacture it again?

Edited April 13, 2023 by ggc

[craig]

There is no way they allow a tolerance of 30mm all around, but, stranger things happen. Ask them and check the other openings and the tolerances before doing so. Reality bites, can you live with it? Yeah probably, is it what you wanted? No. I would personally say live with it and ask for some recompense. Let's say 20% of the cost of the window and expect 10% of the cost back.

 

To be honest, you could reject it and get into a disagreement about it & a fair bit of going back and forth, getting nowhere fast. Is it worth the headache?

[Mr Punter]

You can mostly lose that inside with packing / insulated plasterboard and outside with render so you can still have the slim sightlines.  I would ask them to contribute to the additional costs for packing out.

[ggc]

5 minutes ago, craig said:

There is no way they allow a tolerance of 30mm all around, but, stranger things happen. Ask them and check the other openings and the tolerances before doing so. Reality bites, can you live with it? Yeah probably, is it what you wanted? No. I would personally say live with it and ask for some recompense. Let's say 20% of the cost of the window and expect 10% of the cost back.

 

To be honest, you could reject it and get into a disagreement about it & a fair bit of going back and forth, getting nowhere fast. Is it worth the headache?

A lot of it has similar 30mm gaps!

Even a large Tilt/Turn window looks to be off plumb by around 7mm at the bottom (measured with a laser level)

The issue is, it wasn’t the cheapest quote , we paid for a bespoke service and tbh this isn’t meeting our expectations 

That angled window is 4m across, I haven’t worked out the area of glass that’s missing, but it’s more the aesthetic of the finish, as we wanted to hide some of the frame behind the block work (which the builders have created the recess to allow)

If I swallow this, it means we have more render making the it look not as we wanted. 

[ggc]

 

 

laser showing the other issue of the uneven T&T level

But that’s for another day! 😕

Edited April 13, 2023 by ggc

[Kelvin]

I’m not particularly fussy (other half would disagree) but I wouldn’t accept that. 30mm out is mistake not a tolerance unless this is their standard detail for some reason given you’ve suggested it’s 30mm elsewhere too. 

[craig]

Call them before it goes any further and have a discussion with them, I don't know any window supplier or manufacturer that recommends a 30mm tolerance. It's an expensive **** up tbh. 

[saveasteading]

8 minutes ago, ggc said:

wasn’t the cheapest

I suspect they allowed tolerance twice by mistake.

The installer measured the openings, and took 15mm off all round. Then the manufacturer did the same.

I don't know what industry standards there are, but I would think at least they pay for the extra cost in finishing this.

[Temp]

Is it possible they measured the opening in the blockwork rather than the frame the windows are fixed into?

[craig]

Just now, Temp said:

Is it possible they measured the opening in the blockwork rather than the frame the windows are fixed into?

 

It's exactly what they have done.

[Carrerahill]

When we did it, I measured the opening in the TF and provided that to the manufacturer clearly, in bold, as actual measurements deductions to apply, they made deductions. When they arrived I slid them into the openings then added my 50x50mm treated timber around the openings and I was able to pull them in tight to the windows, they were faced with DPC then the block work was built up to and over the frame by about 1-5mm. I still used the proper brackets so to remove them you could just remove the internal linings and pull them out, but the fit was essentially tight. 

[ggc]

Well,

We have a meeting on site with the sales representative on Monday am

We have asked for his measurements to be sent across to us to see what he has taken prior to the meeting.

hopefully it’ll show how the error has occurred, and who to point the finger at for the discrepancy !

Mrs GGC has an incredible eye for detail, and this just isn’t to her standards, and isn’t going to allow her to sleep at night knowing things just aren’t how we visioned it sadly.    (dunno how she puts up with me though 😉)

 

They plan on getting the glazing units fitted up there next week, only two weeks after the promised install date, and about 3 weeks after this all started. 
 

I don’t know how they will get SWMBO to swallow this.

[Dave Jones]

yeah i wouldn't be happy with that.

 

who signed off the order with the measurements ? 

 

You could pack out the internal frame with more timber to get it to work but your going to want the render line to match the reveal of the sliding door below it.

 

 

[craig]

On 15/04/2023 at 08:29, ggc said:

Mrs GGC has an incredible eye for detail, and this just isn’t to her standards, and isn’t going to allow her to sleep at night knowing things just aren’t how we visioned it sadly.    (dunno how she puts up with me though 😉)

 

They plan on getting the glazing units fitted up there next week, only two weeks after the promised install date, and about 3 weeks after this all started. 
 

I don’t know how they will get SWMBO to swallow this.

It’s a relatively easy fix but it does mean building out the opening a little further externally and internally. In the grand scheme of things, it’s 40mm total in width/height. Once you pack out, you’ll never know. I’d be asking them to cover the costs of the work and recompense for the inconvenience.
 

Once done, you’ll have the same result.

 

 

[PeterW]

On 13/04/2023 at 14:22, ggc said:

Even a large Tilt/Turn window looks to be off plumb by around 7mm at the bottom (measured with a laser level)

Use a proper spirit level and both ways round as laser levels can be notorious for being out unless they are decent (ie expensive) brands. 

[ggc]

On 16/04/2023 at 10:04, PeterW said:

Use a proper spirit level and both ways round as laser levels can be notorious for being out unless they are decent (ie expensive) brands. 

El-cheapo laser gave out the same result as their expensive professional tool (to my surprise too)

Tilt & Turn is to be re fitted