Full plans application drawings approved, property built to those drawings but failed final inspection

[Lofty718]

The drawings have been followed exactly, but BC made a mistake when approving the drawings and now say it does not meet regs

 

Do building control have any liability here? been rather stitched up. The issue could of been corrected very easily in the beginning but now will be a total nightmare and very costly

Edited April 3, 2023 by Lofty718

[Bozza]

Oh dear.  Would be helpful to elaborate on the specific issues and where the confusion has taken place.
 

Eg were there numerous back and forth submissions , amendments etc.  Or you simply submitted one set, with no obvious blatant BC errors, they were approved and away you went.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lofty718]

@Bozza

 

It's a 3 storey property with an open plan downstairs. It should have fire suppression or a door to seperate the staircase according to regs (which I was totally unaware of)

 

Drawings were approved without any suppression or doors. There was zero amendments or variation, I sent them one email with structural drawings, planning drawings and building control drawings all showing the same open plan layout and it was all approved and they visited on numerous occasions throughout the build. Then final visit comes and bco hits me with this news and tells me I need to add a door (not possible) or an expensive misting system or I can't get a completion cert.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Lofty718

[nod]

Bad mistake 

Though who ever submitted should have spotted this basic error 

[Conor]

We had to do the same, tho we knew about it before final inspection. I made a basic wall panel and ceiling hung slider from timber and perspex sheet to isolate the hall/stairs from the open area. Doesn't need to be so any particular standard. Passed final inspection and hasn't been closed since. There's always a way!

[Lofty718]

5 hours ago, nod said:

Bad mistake 

Though who ever submitted should have spotted this basic error 

I submitted the plans but arc technician drew them. I'm amazed neither BC or plan drawer noticed. Do you think I any claim against BC or architect?

[Dave Jones]

you need to get over the hurdle as cheap as possible.

 

stud out and put a door in, once its inspected you can remove it all.

 

yes a pain in the arris but you are where you are. BCO are not going to pass it, you arent going to take them to court for costs so just crack on and get it done.

[Temp]

Gosh that's a pretty obvious mistake. Its something a BCO should check on every loft conversion for example.

 

Before rushing ahead with changes to the ground floor it might be possible to make another change because the Approved Documents represent only one way of complying with the Building Regulations. That might still be the best/option but the BCO might allow open plan if you improve fire doors on other floors or provide another means of escape from the top floor or install a sprinkler. Would have to discuss it with him.

 

Might have a case against the plan drawer but I guess it depends on the contract. 

[Lofty718]

It's not possible to install a door due to mobility issues, a door would of been easy to design in at the beginning but not now.

 

The bco's will accept a misting system, but this is expensive and involves destroying newly plastered and painted walls and ceilings.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Lofty718

[Dave Jones]

1 minute ago, Lofty718 said:

It's not possible to install a door due to mobility issues, a door would of been easy to design in at the beginning but not now.

 

The bco's will accept a misting system, but this is expensive and involves destroying newly plastered and painted walls and ceilings.

 

 

its only going to be there for a couple hours while you get signed off. Think outside the box.

 

 

[Lofty718]

1 minute ago, Dave Jones said:

 

 

its only going to be there for a couple hours while you get signed off. Think outside the box.

 

 

Does this not invalidate home insurance if there is a fire?

[Dave Jones]

if your that worried pay the money and do it properly.

 

you cant have your cake and eat it.

[Alan Ambrose]

How annoying - particularly close to the end of the build. The one bonus to a misting system, of course, is that you will get some extra fire protection. Who knows, that might come in handy one day.

 

Would you just need misting in the kitchen area?

 

Is this LPA building control or commercial?

Edited April 4, 2023 by Alan Ambrose

[Kelvin]

Same thing happened to a friend of ours. Fortunately for them a builder friend asked them how they got around the fire regs to whit they were both quizzical. He pointed out the requirement and they fitted a misting system in the kitchen before they’d finished boarding out. 

[Lofty718]

It is the council building control.

 

All of the open plan area and staircase hallway need misters. the cost is over 5k+ with no making good.

[Mr Punter]

I understood that your full plans approval notice should be legally binding for 3 years.  If you received the approval and it did not mention this I would discuss with the head of BC.

[ETC]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

I understood that your full plans approval notice should be legally binding for 3 years.  If you received the approval and it did not mention this I would discuss with the head of BC.

Although you may discuss it with BC they will still insist that the house complies.

 

Think of it this way - if there was a fire in the kitchen and smoke filled the staircase you have effectively ruled out escaping from bedrooms through the staircase. Yes - there are EEWs but if you have small children there is no way that you are going out the EEW without collecting your children from their bedrooms.

 

Ultimately the Regulations and the Approved Documents/Technical Booklets are there to protect you and your home. To ignore them can be dangerous and foolhardy.

 

I do not agree with those posters who advise you to put a door in temporarily and remove it once the Completion Certificate is issued. It’s dangerous.

 

Having said that you might wish to seek legal advice in relation to the liability for the cost to make the works comply.

 

Good luck.

Edited April 4, 2023 by ETC

[joe90]

1 hour ago, ETC said:

Having said that you might wish to seek legal advice in relation to the liability for the cost to make the works comply.

+1

[Lofty718]

That is what I will be doing, there is a local government and social care ombudsman that has the power to make building control compensate people if they make a mistake. But it's quite a grey area.

 

The officer came up with a really weak excuse for why they approved the drawings wrongly. So I've sent out an email to the head of building control and if that fails then on to the ombudsman, I have also asked the architect if I can claim off of his PI insurance for the error.

 

I would absolutely not put in a temporary door just to pass. it's very annoying because it would of been so much easier to deal with at the start of the project I could of added a pocket door but now the layout does not allow it.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Lofty718

[joe90]

46 minutes ago, Lofty718 said:

I have also asked the architect if I can claim off of his PI insurance for the error.

Not much of an architect if he missed that as well!! 🤷‍♂️

[Adsibob]

There is some ambiguity in @Lofty718’s post. You mention that an architectural technician drew them, but later refer to an architect. Did you use an architect or not? I think this may be pretty crucial to whether you can claim against the person who drew them. My understanding is that a technician is somebody who draws. Whereas an architect is somebody who advises and draws, and so if drawn by an architect there is implied in his service that he is advising you that this drawing is compliant.

 

 That said, if you have a paper trail clearly showing that BCO approved the initial drawing, pre-build, then regardless of whether the person who drew the drawing owed you a duty of care to not draw negligent plans, I think you would have a good claim against BC. Otherwise what is the point of submitting drawings to them pre-build.

 

 We have a very similar situation to you, but we knew from the outset because our architect told us at the outset we would either need a fire door or a fire curtain. We were going to install a fire curtain in the ceiling, but in the end, once the staircase went in and we knew the shape of the ground floor ceiling, the architect advised us that the curtain in the ceiling would look ugly. (Our ceiling is plastered with beautiful bits of Cornwall.) so reluctantly I had to fork out £5k on an imist system, but at least now I have a supposedly state of the art fire suppression system. The thing that pisses me off is the need to service it each year.

 

 Depending on the shape of the ceiling, and how much space you have, I think a fire curtain is worth considering. It will be much less disruption to provide a power supply for that, then to install an imist system which requires water pipes to several locations throughout your open plan area. We have 7 nozzles and probably 25m of piping. The tank for the mist system is also a pain to hide. We managed to hide it above our fridge, but this requires a platform to be built for it, and genie lift to lift it into position. It’s just under 60cm wide, 50cm high and fairly deep too. imist can give you a free design and quote so you understand what’s involved.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Adsibob

[mr rusty]

FWIW I've just read the Ombudsman's webpage and I think the OP has a good chance of getting some compensation towards rectification https://www.lgo.org.uk/make-a-complaint/fact-sheets/planning-and-building-control/building-control I think I might be pragmatic and pay for the misting system and try and get reimbursement for reworking all the plastering and decoration due to their incorrect approval. The fact that they issued a Notice of Approval (i.e. a formal contractual document - which is my interpretation of a "notice") must carry some weight.

[Lofty718]

It was an architectural technician not an actual ARB architect. However surely they should still have a responsibility to know the regs (in my opinion)

 

The paper trail is there with building control, they approved what I've built with no mention of anything other than smoke alarms.

 

I was not aware I could use a fire curtain the BCO said door, sprinklers or misting system. However I do not know how a fire curtain would look, the ceiling is flat and square but space is limited, I can't really find many examples of domestic fire curtains anywhere online

29 minutes ago, mr rusty said:

FWIW I've just read the Ombudsman's webpage and I think the OP has a good chance of getting some compensation towards rectification https://www.lgo.org.uk/make-a-complaint/fact-sheets/planning-and-building-control/building-control I think I might be pragmatic and pay for the misting system and try and get reimbursement for reworking all the plastering and decoration due to their incorrect approval. The fact that they issued a Notice of Approval (i.e. a formal contractual document - which is my interpretation of a "notice") must carry some weight.

That's the website I found, they suggest try to resolve it with BC myself if not I will go to them.

[Temp]

Google suggests case law means council BCO are not liable but a private BCO might be.

 

 

 

 

[Temp]

When did the BCO approve the drawings? Was it before or after end of June 22?

 

It appears Section 38 of the Building Control Act 1984 _may_ make BCO liable but it only came into force on about 28th June 22 with the Building Safety Act.

 

https://www.mishcon.com/news/introduction-of-section-38-building-act-1984