Building Control Inspector Changes Previously Approved Inspections

[Dabooj80]

Hi guys,

 

I just wanted clarification on an issue I'm facing with my building control company. A bit of background info:

 

I had an inspector assigned and he made the first couple of site visits for foundations and drainage. He was happy with what the builders had done so far and was happy for the builders to continue the work.

As my house extension requires a large amount of steel beams and steel columns, we asked for a site visit to check the steels out once they were in place but were told that the inspector does not come out until the roof frame has been erected.

I stated that there were a lot of steel beams involved and modifying something later on would be nearly impossible, so the inspector asked me to send him lots of pictures of the steel beams. Once he had reviewed these pictures, he told my builder he was happy with the steel work and that he can continue the building work.

A little while later, we had constructed the first floor walls and the roof frame and so requested the next site visit. 

But we were told by the company that the assigned inspector was off on long term sickness. After chasing the company for a couple of weeks, I eventually spoke to a manager and told him the situation was causing a delay to the work, as we couldn't proceed without the site visit to approve the roof.

The manager reluctantly agreed to do the site visit himself and on the day he arrived, he must have had a bee in his bonnet about being called out to the site.

 

Foregoing his rudeness and bad attitude, he decided to look at previously approved items and attempt to find issues with them. 

He questioned the drainage that was approved on site by the original inspector and then decided to find faults with the steel beams and how the frames were constructed.

After he left, he reported these issues and requested updated technical drawings and new structural engineer documents for the drainage, the steel works and the roof construction. It seemed like he was deliberately trying to find faults with work that would be difficult to modify, as we have built upon these after originally having the work approved. This has already set me back around £5000 in delays, material costs and additional fees for architects and SE.

 

So the question I have is, if an inspector has made a site visit and verbally approved the drainage and there is no reported issue with this can a different inspector later come and find issues with this?

Similarly, if an inspector has reviewed photos of the steel works and has refused to come out on site but has told the builder the steel works look fine and you can continue with the work, can a different inspector come and report faults after the builder has built walls and the roof frame on these beams?

 

It seems to me that if the process of inspection can be altered at a later date then what is the actual point of having these site inspections at specific stages of the work?

 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Shuja  

[MikeSharp01]

After each visit you should get a report that sets out the work seen and the approval to move forward - they will have photos taken at the visits at the very least so as long as you have evidence of a visit and such followup you should be OK.

 

The verbal approval is possibly more tricky but again you presumably have evidence you sent the photos (emails etc) and they have no evidence that they disapproved it following the photos / email. 

 

 

[nod]

It won’t help you now 

But for anyone else Don’t use private companies for BC Local Authority are cheaper and will call out the same day 

 

Your best and cheapest option is to go back to your SE and ask him to verify the work that’s been carried 

Once your inspector has that bit of paper he can crawl back under his rock 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

47 minutes ago, Dabooj80 said:

...

So the question I have is, if an inspector has made a site visit and verbally approved the drainage and there is no reported issue with this can a different inspector later come and find issues with this?

 

Similarly, if an inspector has reviewed photos of the steel works and has refused to come out on site but has told the builder the steel works look fine and you can continue with the work, can a different inspector come and report faults after the builder has built walls and the roof frame on these beams?

...

 

Mange your Inspector.  How?

Evidence.

• Request copies of the original Inspectors Notes (they have to keep records )
• Take your own contempraneous notes: phoographs, videos, recording, written notes
• Send copies of those notes to the Inspector

Ask the new Inspector to request and refer to the original Inspector's file notes. Long term Sickness cannot not refer to the notes that (should have?) been taken. 

[saveasteading]

49 minutes ago, Dabooj80 said:

no reported issue with this can a different inspector later come and find issues 

There is a common misunderstanding. A bco is no replacement for quality control and expert management. They do spot checks and concentrate on certain issues.

Saying that drains look ok does not mean they are.

Signing off the job does not mean it isn't full of unseen or even concealed problems.

 

The fabrication of steel is not something they are trained for. If one says nothing it doesn't mean it is ok. If the next one says he has concerns then so should you and get it looked at.

The SE should be looking at the steel, or the Architect at a push.

 

The best bco i engaged was private. It meant we got the same person every project, whichever council it came under. I had far more issues with LAs when we tried them again, mostly claiming there were problems when there werent;  I think an arrogance from authority over little builders. Not all of course and they all recanted.

 

31 minutes ago, nod said:

he can crawl back under his rock 

 

 

Unnecessary? Looks like you have had issues! But that does remind me of a couple. 

[Temp]

Possibly too late now but for others i recommend writing down what the BCO has approved verbally and any changes or issues raised at every visit. Before he leaves ask him when you should call him back.  Then that evening send him an email or letter to confirm what was agreed. You know something like..

 

Thank you for the visit today which we found very helpful..

Just to confirm you were happy with abcd

but require us to address efgh by doing xyz.

and would like us to call you back for the next site visit when we have done pqrs but before tuvw. 

 

Keep the subject field the same (use your site address?) so its all one thread in his email system.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Temp

[Conor]

If its a case of what had been built does not match the submitted drawings, then it might be a matter of just providing these. Happens all the time, things change, can't put a pipe where you intended. While the work was passed as being "fine", the paper work needs to reflect what was built. That was the issue we had.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

....

Keep the subject field the same (use your site address?) so its all one thread in his email system.

 

Could not agree more . So important that ... you might like to insert the date in that field too (if its a new issue) as in

• Salamander Cottage LA[..] 9[...] : Steels Drawings : 14/02/2023

Just have a quick look at your own email IN box.

Look at those Subject Lines that draw your attention. BCO's got the same problem.  Make it easy for everyone.

[Mr Punter]

What were the issues with the beams?  If they see something on a visit that is high risk they should make you resolve it no matter that it was not picked up earlier.

 

Standard inspections are often:

 

Foundations

Structure complete (this sounds like when you got pulled on the steels?)

Wind and weather tight

First fix

Thermal insulation

Completion – drains to be on test

 

Some of these they will just go with photos.

[ETC]

4 hours ago, Conor said:

If its a case of what had been built does not match the submitted drawings, then it might be a matter of just providing these. Happens all the time, things change, can't put a pipe where you intended. While the work was passed as being "fine", the paper work needs to reflect what was built. That was the issue we had.

Really? The paperwork needed to reflect what was built - why?

[ETC]

6 hours ago, Dabooj80 said:

Hi guys,

 

I just wanted clarification on an issue I'm facing with my building control company. A bit of background info:

 

I had an inspector assigned and he made the first couple of site visits for foundations and drainage. He was happy with what the builders had done so far and was happy for the builders to continue the work.

As my house extension requires a large amount of steel beams and steel columns, we asked for a site visit to check the steels out once they were in place but were told that the inspector does not come out until the roof frame has been erected.

I stated that there were a lot of steel beams involved and modifying something later on would be nearly impossible, so the inspector asked me to send him lots of pictures of the steel beams. Once he had reviewed these pictures, he told my builder he was happy with the steel work and that he can continue the building work.

A little while later, we had constructed the first floor walls and the roof frame and so requested the next site visit. 

But we were told by the company that the assigned inspector was off on long term sickness. After chasing the company for a couple of weeks, I eventually spoke to a manager and told him the situation was causing a delay to the work, as we couldn't proceed without the site visit to approve the roof.

The manager reluctantly agreed to do the site visit himself and on the day he arrived, he must have had a bee in his bonnet about being called out to the site.

 

Foregoing his rudeness and bad attitude, he decided to look at previously approved items and attempt to find issues with them. 

He questioned the drainage that was approved on site by the original inspector and then decided to find faults with the steel beams and how the frames were constructed.

After he left, he reported these issues and requested updated technical drawings and new structural engineer documents for the drainage, the steel works and the roof construction. It seemed like he was deliberately trying to find faults with work that would be difficult to modify, as we have built upon these after originally having the work approved. This has already set me back around £5000 in delays, material costs and additional fees for architects and SE.

 

So the question I have is, if an inspector has made a site visit and verbally approved the drainage and there is no reported issue with this can a different inspector later come and find issues with this?

Similarly, if an inspector has reviewed photos of the steel works and has refused to come out on site but has told the builder the steel works look fine and you can continue with the work, can a different inspector come and report faults after the builder has built walls and the roof frame on these beams?

 

It seems to me that if the process of inspection can be altered at a later date then what is the actual point of having these site inspections at specific stages of the work?

 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Shuja  

Technically BC - certainly here in NI - do not give stage approval and as the old song goes - it’s not over until the fat lady sings. That is to say the works are not approved until the Completion Certificate is issued and if a BCO does see something on a further inspection that doesn’t appear correct it can be picked up. It’s not fair and it stinks of incompetency by both the original and subsequent BCO. 

 

Having said all that it’s very bad form for an inspector to re-inspect works previously inspected by a colleague. Why someone would want to give themselves extra work to do is beyond me.

 

When inspecting steelwork BCO will normally compare what is on site with what has been designed by the SE. If something on site looks odd or off it’s flagged up with the applicant but again in this case it would need to have been very much off or looked ver odd for the original surveyor to miss it and for the next surveyor to pick it up. Same thing with the drainage.

 

I’m sorry - and even though it sounds absurd - I’d do whatever the second surveyor asks for. To do anything else you’d be flogging a dead horse and giving yourself additional stress. I would however ask the second inspector why these things weren’t picked up originally and let him know that the process has had a financial implication for your project.

[Temp]

16 minutes ago, ETC said:

Really? The paperwork needed to reflect what was built - why?

 

BCO almost never do their own structural calculations or similar design checks, they ask you to get an SE to validate the design. Then all they have to do is check you have built it as specified.

 

Quote

Subsequent drawings marked “as-built” by Studio E contained errors such as referring to zinc cladding despite this being swapped out for cheaper aluminium in a cost-cutting process long before construction work had even begun

 

(Grenfell tower).

[ETC]

In my experience:

 

While BC won’t ask for as-built drawings - but if changes are noted on site BC - for example to structural steelwork - BC will ask for updated design information from the SE including calculations.

 

Rarely ask for as-built drainage or as-built cladding specification but will check what has been built on site and if found to be completely different - fire safety or thermal performance for example - will ask for amended information to be submitted.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, ETC said:

It’s not fair and it stinks of incompetency by both the original and subsequent BCO. 

No it doesn't. I refer you to my earlier response. BCOs are not Clerks of Works.

[Haylingbilly]

21 hours ago, nod said:

It won’t help you now 

But for anyone else Don’t use private companies for BC Local Authority are cheaper and will call out the same day 

 

Your best and cheapest option is to go back to your SE and ask him to verify the work that’s been carried 

Once your inspector has that bit of paper he can crawl back under his rock 

 

 

100% agree, I had an absolute nightmare with my one who was doing BC and warranty inspections. They were horrific. I wrote a detailed complaint with all the issues threatening to take them to court for 10 times the contract value as per the maiximum liability in the contract and they paid up £5k within 3 weeks as the case was so strong!

[ETC]

20 hours ago, saveasteading said:

No it doesn't. I refer you to my earlier response. BCOs are not Clerks of Works.

Of course it does. It’s certainly not a good reflection of BCOs.

[Dave Jones]

solicitor time for a letter they are cheap.

 

notice of pre-action.

 

original inspector approved stage X evidenced by report Y

 

Boss inspector says stage X previously approved by report Y is now wrong. Costs to you are a min £25k and they are liable.

 

Should focus the tossers mind.

[Dabooj80]

Thank you all for your responses.

 

I've got a further update from this new BC inspector, which I'm not sure what he's asking.

 

The first item he listed was a request for a report for the roof which included warranties for roof coverings. I called him and told him by builder has liability insurance but he suggested I need to call a 3rd party roofing company and ask them to review the roof and get them to provide a warranty for the roof. This just sounded absurd to me.

 

The second item he listed was the one I didn't understand at all.

"Provide a full package of details for the drainage routes and arrangements including detailing on how moisture ingress will be prevented where penetrating through external elements like the roof soffits."

 

I provided full technical plans which include drainage and guttering details already. The drainage and guttering is pretty standard with a box (soffit), fascia and gutter. 

So what additional arrangements and details are they looking for in terms of moisture ingress prevention from roof soffits?

 

If anyone can shed some light on this, I'd really appreciate it.

 

Thanks

 

[Temp]

16 minutes ago, Dabooj80 said:

The first item he listed was a request for a report for the roof which included warranties for roof coverings. I called him and told him by builder has liability insurance but he suggested I need to call a 3rd party roofing company and ask them to review the roof and get them to provide a warranty for the roof. This just sounded absurd to me.

 

I think he's asking for far more than he really needs but all I can suggest is providing it.

 

The only "report" I can think he needs is from the designer eg structural details to justify the design. As for a warranty I would collect together warranty info for the roof tiles and roof membrane. Possibly from their websites.

 

If its a flat roof the installer of the top layer would normally provide a warranty for the system used.

 

If you are getting a 10 year warranty provide details of that.

 

22 minutes ago, Dabooj80 said:

The second item he listed was the one I didn't understand at all.

"Provide a full package of details for the drainage routes and arrangements including detailing on how moisture ingress will be prevented where penetrating through external elements like the roof soffits."

 

So you may already have provided the first bit. Normally a plan showing the house on the site with the location of things like WC, showers, stacks, inspection chambers and the routing of pipes to the main sewer in the road. Ditto for surface water. Ideally the plan would have the depths for pipes but you might get away with specifying the falls on pipe runs. If soakaways are being used the location should be shown with the distance from the house marked and a note on how the soakaway will be built. He may also ask you to justify the size of the soakaway but I would wait for him to ask unless you have that in hand already.

 

Where pipes go through the walls below ground there are standard ways for dealing with settlement and rodents ingress. Probably copy them from the regs? When stacks go through the roof there there should be some sort of flashing around it.  For this sort of thing perhaps copy the suppliers drawing onto a blank drawing and add a title such as "Flashing detail for roof penetration of soil stack". It's not real hard to make it look professional just annoyingly time consuming.

[ETC]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

 

I think he's asking for far more than he really needs but all I can suggest is providing it.

 

The only "report" I can think he needs is from the designer eg structural details to justify the design. As for a warranty I would collect together warranty info for the roof tiles and roof membrane. Possibly from their websites.

 

He’s probably looking for a SE design if it’s a cut pitched roof (although it must be quite complicated if he wants this) or a design certificate if it’s a trussed roof.

 

If its a flat roof the installer of the top layer would normally provide a warranty for the system used.

 

If you are getting a 10 year warranty provide details of that.

 

 

So you may already have provided the first bit. Normally a plan showing the house on the site with the location of things like WC, showers, stacks, inspection chambers and the routing of pipes to the main sewer in the road. Ditto for surface water. Ideally the plan would have the depths for pipes but you might get away with specifying the falls on pipe runs. If soakaways are being used the location should be shown with the distance from the house marked and a note on how the soakaway will be built. He may also ask you to justify the size of the soakaway but I would wait for him to ask unless you have that in hand already.

 

Where pipes go through the walls below ground there are standard ways for dealing with settlement and rodents ingress. Probably copy them from the regs? When stacks go through the roof there there should be some sort of flashing around it.  For this sort of thing perhaps copy the suppliers drawing onto a blank drawing and add a title such as "Flashing detail for roof penetration of soil stack". It's not real hard to make it look professional just annoyingly time consuming.

Might be asking for a detail where the pipe passes through the DPM. Just tell him you’re sealing all pipes to the DPM.