Are these costs realistic for a 500m2 house

[miike]

I'm about to start building on my contemporary 500m2 house. Planning ended up taking 2 years longer than expected to get, so while the original plan was to give the whole project to a single builder, the increase in construction costs during the past 2 years have put this option out of my budget. I'm now going to be project managing the build and sub-contracting out the work. 

 

I've put together my list of expected costs and the total comes out at £794,750 (£1590 per sqm). The house will be three storeys, with a semi-submerged basement and a two storey timber frame sat on top. 4 bedrooms, all with en-suites. Cladding will be burnt larch and polished plaster.

 

The confirmed costs so far are for the basement (includes prelims, site clearance, excavation, muck away, waterproofing and drainage), timber frame (supply and erection) and professional fees (engineer + architect). Everything else is ball park at the moment. Utility connections will be simple to this site.

 

Do any of the below costs stand out as too high/low? I'm also looking for any suggestions on where I could save money as at my estimated build cost, a lot of stuff is going to end up being put on credit cards. Some places I thought I could save is on the flooring and kitchen - I'll be using engineered oak flooring but happy to buy used, same with the kitchen. I'll have about 6 months to source some good deals on these items, which could substantially lower their cost. 

 

Basement - 285,000

Connections - 9,000

Timber Frame - 120,000

Windows - 70,000

External Cladding - 40,000

Professional Fees - 25,750

Warranty - 5,000

Roof - 20,000

Rainwater Goods - 8,000

FF Joinery - 9,000

FF Plumbing - 15,000

FF Electrics - 10,000

Screed - 12,500

MVHR - 9,500

UFH - 10,000

ASHP - 10,000

Floors/Ceiling - 35,000

Stairs - 8,000

SF Joiner - 9,000

SF Plumbing - 15,000

SF Electrics - 10,000

Kitchen - 25,000

Decoration (inc tiling) - 14,000

Landscaping/fencing - 20,000

 

[JohnMo]

Big cost is the basement do you need it, will you use it? Why do you need 500m2?

 

Big area - big costs, £1500 m2 sounds on the low side, for someone else doing the work.

[Andehh]

Can't coment on the breakdown, but I'd suggest closer to £2000 to £2500psqm build only, spec dependant. 

 

Worth getting an online QS service to give you a ballpark. 

[miike]

6 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Big cost is the basement do you need it, will you use it? Why do you need 500m2?

 

Big area - big costs, £1500 m2 sounds on the low side, for someone else doing the work.

It's on a sloping hill, only about a third of the basement is really a basement, the other parts open up out into the garden. It's also an upside down living arrangement with the bedrooms on the bottom floor. 

I don't need 500m2, but property values in the area are £6000+ sqm so it made sense to go big from an ROI point of view.

[Mr Punter]

I have used Estimators Online for guide figures.  They are very good value and quick turnaround.  It also saves having to measure drawings for quants.  I sometimes send their figures to subbies for quotes.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Mr Punter

[Thorfun]

what size is the footprint of the building? I presume 166m² (500m² / 3 ).

 

burnt larch is expensive (ask me how i know! 😉 ). what is the area being cladded in that?

 

it's really hard to give an opinion on costs without knowing sizes etc. e.g. screed costs? liquid or sand/cement? area of screed?

 

project managing will save you money but unless you're getting your hands dirty i don't think you'll hit the £1500/m². as others have said £2k - £2.5k is more likely.

[miike]

9 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

what size is the footprint of the building? I presume 166m² (500m² / 3 ).

 

burnt larch is expensive (ask me how i know! 😉 ). what is the area being cladded in that?

 

it's really hard to give an opinion on costs without knowing sizes etc. e.g. screed costs? liquid or sand/cement? area of screed?

 

project managing will save you money but unless you're getting your hands dirty i don't think you'll hit the £1500/m². as others have said £2k - £2.5k is more likely.

 

Basement is actually 250m2, middle floor is 175m2 and top floor is 75m2. The area being clad with the larch isn't actually huge, the majority is render and as the bulk of the house is underground, so it's more like cladding a 300m2 house than a 500m2 one. I've budgeted £80m2 for the supply of the burnt larch though.

 

There's some economies of scale with the third floor, the cost to add that extra space is pretty minimal which helps bring the overall average down. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by miike

[Thorfun]

7 minutes ago, miike said:

 

Basement is actually 250m2, middle floor is 175m2 and top floor is 75m2. The area being clad with the larch isn't actually huge, the majority is render and as the bulk of the house is underground, so it's more like cladding a 300m2 house than a 500m2 one. I've budgeted £80m2 for the supply of the burnt larch though.

 

There's some economies of scale with the third floor, the cost to add that extra space is pretty minimal which helps bring the overall average down. 

sounds amazing. maybe you can share some drawings!

 

i got my burnt larch from Permachar. they were the cheapest i found in the UK. the wood comes from Lithuania but when i tried to contact the factory directly in Lithuania they just redirected my enquiry to Permachar. Also, the more you buy the cheaper it becomes. tip.....don't under order as when you have to purchase more you won't get the bulk discount price! i made that mistake and it was pretty costly.

[miike]

2 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

sounds amazing. maybe you can share some drawings!

 

i got my burnt larch from Permachar. they were the cheapest i found in the UK. the wood comes from Lithuania but when i tried to contact the factory directly in Lithuania they just redirected my enquiry to Permachar. Also, the more you buy the cheaper it becomes. tip.....don't under order as when you have to purchase more you won't get the bulk discount price! i made that mistake and it was pretty costly.

 

I've had that issue as well. Solution is to get your Lithuanian 'friend' to make the order for collection from the factory and then organise the shipping yourself. 

 

[Thorfun]

stunning. i really do hope you post your progress on here. i, for one, would love to follow your build.

 

and well done on having a Lithuanian mate! 🙂 just in case you didn't know, the Lithuanian company that actually made my burnt larch was https://degmeda.eu/

[miike]

1 minute ago, Thorfun said:

stunning. i really do hope you post your progress on here. i, for one, would love to follow your build.

 

and well done on having a Lithuanian mate! 🙂 just in case you didn't know, the Lithuanian company that actually made my burnt larch was https://degmeda.eu/

Thank you! I learnt this tip from my architect when discussing window options - I've budgeted 70,000 for them but if I went through a UK company to place the order then I'd be paying double that easily. 

[Thorfun]

5 minutes ago, miike said:

Thank you! I learnt this tip from my architect when discussing window options - I've budgeted 70,000 for them but if I went through a UK company to place the order then I'd be paying double that easily. 

sounds like you've got your head screwed on properly then. maybe you can bring it in at £1590/m²

 

i wish you the best of luck.

[AliG]

If you are suggesting putting costs on credit cards it does not sound like you have much room to manoeuvre.

 

I think the cost is unrealistically low for what will supposedly be a £3m house. You cannot skimp on material quality on that value of house.

 

As well as some of the individual figures being low, there are the inevitable small items that you don't realise you need until it is costed.

 

A few things -

 

1. Fire stopping for the timber frame. £5k+

 

2.Powder coated aluminium around the roof edges on the pictures. that will cost £50-100 per linear metre fitted. Looks like you might have £10k there.

 

3. Flat roofs can be surprisingly expensive especially when you include parapets and any features such as water outlets, concealed gutters etc. Plus the cost of boarding the roof, firing strips to create water runs and so on. I think you could be considerably more than your estimate. Depends how much of it is part of the frame.

 

4. £25k for a kitchen. Maybe doable if you get a used kitchen, the trouble is getting one that fits the plan. A new kitchen for this style of house would have around £10k in equipment in it alone.

 

5. Presumably you will need 2 stairways. I would be looking at something maybe wood and glass in this style of house, plus balustrades. At least double your estimate depending on the amount of balustrade.

 

6. Decoration - Assuming that half the floors are tiled/engineered wood. That is £80 a square metre, so £20k, You will have around 100sq metres of tiling in the other bathrooms/en suites so that is £8k. Your £14k estimate might cover the painting for this size of house. Maybe some of this is in the floors/ceilings number.

 

7. Do you plan on having any fitted wardrobes and a utility room - Maybe another £5-10k.

 

8. SF Joiner - Doors plus ironmongery plus frames and fitting will be at least £500 a door. Including skirting this number might be more like £15k.

 

9. Landscaping can be extremely expensive depending on the area of driveways, walls, garden etc. Assume around £100 a sq metre for hard landscaping.

 

10 Vapour membranes, air tightness tape, silicone etc can run into a good few thousand.

 

Plumbing and heating look OK.

 

Net net I think the £2000-2500 range is a much better estimate.

 

Best thing to do would be to try and get some firm quotes for the larger figures especially the roof.

 

 

[Conor]

Similar situation to us, basement is a great bonus and don't regret it. We came in at £1300m² but that was a lot of work from ourselves and me taking fair bit of time off work. And we finished a year ago, prices are still going.up. Budget for £2k m² and hope to come in lower.

[miike]

7 minutes ago, AliG said:

If you are suggesting putting costs on credit cards it does not sound like you have much room to manoeuvre.

 

I think the cost is unrealistically low for what will supposedly be a £3m house. You cannot skimp on material quality on that value of house.

 

As well as some of the individual figures being low, there are the inevitable small items that you don't realise you need until it is costed.

 

A few things -

 

1. Fire stopping for the timber frame. £5k+

 

2.Powder coated aluminium around the roof edges on the pictures. that will cost £50-100 per linear metre fitted. Looks like you might have £10k there.

 

3. Flat roofs can be surprisingly expensive especially when you include parapets and any features such as water outlets, concealed gutters etc. Plus the cost of boarding the roof, firing strips to create water runs and so on. I think you could be considerably more than your estimate. Depends how much of it is part of the frame.

 

4. £25k for a kitchen. Maybe doable if you get a used kitchen, the trouble is getting one that fits the plan. A new kitchen for this style of house would have around £10k in equipment in it alone.

 

5. Presumably you will need 2 stairways. I would be looking at something maybe wood and glass in this style of house, plus balustrades. At least double your estimate depending on the amount of balustrade.

 

6. Decoration - Assuming that half the floors are tiled/engineered wood. That is £80 a square metre, so £20k, You will have around 100sq metres of tiling in the other bathrooms/en suites so that is £8k. Your £14k estimate might cover the painting for this size of house. Maybe some of this is in the floors/ceilings number.

 

7. Do you plan on having any fitted wardrobes and a utility room - Maybe another £5-10k.

 

8. SF Joiner - Doors plus ironmongery plus frames and fitting will be at least £500 a door. Including skirting this number might be more like £15k.

 

9. Landscaping can be extremely expensive depending on the area of driveways, walls, garden etc. Assume around £100 a sq metre for hard landscaping.

 

10 Vapour membranes, air tightness tape, silicone etc can run into a good few thousand.

 

Plumbing and heating look OK.

 

Net net I think the £2000-2500 range is a much better estimate.

 

Best thing to do would be to try and get some firm quotes for the larger figures especially the roof.

 

 

 

Budget is tight because I'm attempting to do it without a mortgage. There'd be an additional ~£500k available if I did opt for one but I run my own company and haven't paid myself a salary this year as I've been reinvesting all the profits back into the company, so getting a mortgage now would be a big pain. 

2. Roof edges haven't been specced yet. I'm looking at simply rendering them or potentially a black charred wood cladding which I've seen used quite effectively. 

 

4. For the kitchen, if I didn't find a suitable ex-display or used one, I'm going to buy the carcasses from B&Q then purchases premium doors from a separate company so you can get the expensive look without spending a huge amount. Equipment wise, I'd be looking at £2k on an induction hob with built in extraction fan and 2.5k on a built in oven. Add a £400 no-name wine fridge and people will assume the whole kitchen must have cost a lot. 

 

5. Correct on the two stairs. The estimate was based on figures I got from an ironmonger to make the skeleton of the stairs and then fit timber steps. The quotes for the stairs were all over the place though - I sent the same plans and reference pictures to several stair companies and they were quoting 80k+ but ironmongers with joiners were quoting <10k. 

 

6. The engineered wood floor pricing is within the the 'floor' category. I can source this at £30 sqm but will be used throughout the house. Tiling is going to be kept to a minimum in bathrooms, pretty much only in the showers. 

Roof is the big unknown one currently though, which I'm trying to nail down. 

[Kelvin]

It’s a beautiful looking house. Ours is on a sloping site too but it’s too rural for that kind of look so we’ve cut and filled the hill. 
 

It’s an ambitious overall cost/m² as the others have suggested. 

[jack]

There was a discussion the other day about electrics in a new house and the consensus was that £20k was optimistic. That was for a much smaller house than yours.

 

13 minutes ago, miike said:

Equipment wise, I'd be looking at £2k on an induction hob with built in extraction fan and 2.5k on a built in oven. Add a £400 no-name wine fridge and people will assume the whole kitchen must have cost a lot. 

 

Respectfully, if I saw a kitchen in a house like this with a single built-in oven, my first assumption would be that you'd run out of money by the time you got to the kitchen! 

 

My general feeling is that you seem willing to sacrifice a lot of quality in order to get a very large house on an extremely tight budget. Maybe you'll be happy with that, but my own experience is that we really regretted some of the cost saving decisions we made, and we weren't working to anything like the budget constraints you've set.

[AliG]

27 minutes ago, miike said:

5. Correct on the two stairs. The estimate was based on figures I got from an ironmonger to make the skeleton of the stairs and then fit timber steps. The quotes for the stairs were all over the place though - I sent the same plans and reference pictures to several stair companies and they were quoting 80k+ but ironmongers with joiners were quoting <10k. 

 

If you look at someone like Pear Stairs https://www.pearstairs.co.uk you can get accurate pricing which you need to add fitting to. Our builder was quoting more than double what we paid with them. I think we paid around £8k for oak/glass and 3m of landing balustrade.

 

29 minutes ago, miike said:

Roof is the big unknown one currently though, which I'm trying to nail down. 

 

I thought flat roofs were supposed to be cheaper and was horrified by the price.

30 minutes ago, miike said:

Tiling is going to be kept to a minimum in bathrooms, pretty much only in the showers. 

 

I think that would be a false economy in this value of house.

 

Sounds like you won't be stuck if you go over budget which is the main thing I would worry about.

[AliG]

3 minutes ago, jack said:

Respectfully, if I saw a kitchen in a house like this with a single built-in oven, my first assumption would be that you'd run out of money by the time you got to the kitchen! 

 

TBF I think you'd get a Siemens built in oven and built in microwave for around £2500

 

But you are looking at a minimum of Siemens/Neff appliances.

 

Hob - £2500

Two Ovens - £2500

Fridge - £1000

Freezer - £1000 - More if you want ice etc

Dishwasher - £800

I'd expect a Quooker at this price point - £1000

 

Then there is washing machine and tumble dryer - Another £1500-2000

 

I really would not go any lower end than these prices in this value of house. Everything we have is Siemens apart from WM and TD which are Miele and much more expensive and our house is in this price range. I see a lot of Miele/Gaggenau etc would would be more again.

[Kelvin]

To give you some idea of our costs. 
 

Flat roof - agreed a price this week.  73m². Costs ranged from £12k to £5.5k for Alwitra. 6 quotes.  We went with £7.7k

 

Our kitchen appliances are £8k including a Quooker and two washing machines. I deleted one of the three ovens. 
 

Large Island worktop - £3.3k fitted. 
 

etc 

[Iceverge]

Lovely house. 

 

I would worry about the £780k +£500k together. 

 

There's a size point at which houses get more expensive per m2 again, I think about 350m2. 

 

 

[miike]

8 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

Lovely house. 

 

I would worry about the £780k +£500k together. 

 

There's a size point at which houses get more expensive per m2 again, I think about 350m2. 

 

 

 

Something I didn't clarify is that while the basement is 250m2, it was originally only supposed to be 175m2 but this didn't fully follow the floor above so there still would have been additional foundations work. The basement company offered to do the extra 75m2 for £30k which would put a basement under all of the upper floor, as it wasn't substantially more work for them. 

 

The top floor is also 75m2 and is a fully open plan space, its primary function is to lead out onto the upper terrace where you have nice views. This total of 150m2 of space should bring the overall average down as they're very basic rooms but the cost of bathrooms/kitchens gets absorbed by them too. 

 

I think you can then start to look at this in two parts - a 350m2 house costing £2000 sqm and a bonus 150m2 of enclosed basic space for £100k. 

[nod]

Some the costs are ridiculously low 

Tiling and decorating 

Have you costed any plaster work 

Or the  venicician Plaster

[dpmiller]

12 hours ago, AliG said:

 

I really would not go any lower end than these prices in this value of house.

 

respectfully, if you're building YOUR house for YOU to live in, what the hell has the value or brand of kitchen appliances got to do with it?

[Kelvin]

11 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

 

respectfully, if you're building YOUR house for YOU to live in, what the hell has the value or brand of kitchen appliances got to do with it?

None whatsoever and if you’re selling at this level of house folk often replace the kitchen anyway.