Scot Gov to change to passivehous for new build homes

[Tennentslager]

https://t.co/m74sdRrq0B

 

Just read that in a U turn Scot Gov will now back a private member's bill for new building regulations introducing passivehoose standards or a Scottish equivalent.😜😜

Superinsulated 

Airtight 

Triple glazed 

MHRC 

Lack of thermal bridges.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jamieled]

Very interesting, seems a jump from current standards! I suppose the change in standards isn't automatic with the introduction of legislation, as that legislation could specify that the change happens in, e.g. 2030?

[Kelvin]

I was aware this was coming and had a ‘debate’ with our timber kit supplier about it. My argument was I didn’t want to build a house that ended up well below the regs shortly after completion. They struggled to understand this and stuck to the line you are building to better than the current regs so won’t affect us 🙄

Edited December 16, 2022 by Kelvin

[Onoff]

A brilliant concept but what will ensure the mass homebuilders do them properly with the attention to detail that's needed? Going to need to be a sea change too in the attitudes of many trades.

[Kelvin]

It talks about that in the consultation document. As we all know passivhaus is as much about attention to detail as it is about standards and design. But it also needs a lot of scrutiny at each stage of the build. As you suggest there needs to be a sea change in attitude to make this happen. However, it’s exactly what needs to happen if we want to build better houses as standard. 

[JohnMo]

 

50 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

new building regulations introducing passivehoose standards or a Scottish equivalent

 

Not willing to hold a breath for that to happen. 

 

Nothing special about Scottish building Regs. My heat loss is less than half the demanded rate for the same house built to Scottish building regs.  And I am not even to Passivhaus house standards due to the shape coefficient less than efficient.

 

So architects will all need more training, builders and all other trades, will need more training also, big builders will all push back.

 

The unaware population will either switch off the MVHR or not change the filters, unaware what its for or why they have it.  Then complain to the press that new house is full of black mould, government will U turn shortly after.

[Marvin]

Yes. consulation first, then, as the Scottish Governments statement says: seeking the laying of amendment regulations in

mid-December 2024.

 

https://www.parliament.scot/-/media/files/legislation/proposed-members-bills/written-statement-from-patrick-harvie-under-rule-91413.pdf

Edited December 16, 2022 by Marvin
spelling error

[Tennentslager]

How can I copyright passivehoose and make a shilling?

[ProDave]

I will be interested to see the final outcome, in particular exactly what standards are set (continual use of passivhouse or whatever standards we propose) and how they verify it.

 

While I want to see houses built better, I would not want to burden every builder with being forced to pay for true passivehouse verification.

 

I speak as someone recently completed what I regard as a very successful low energy new build, but one I know would have failed true passivehouse verification.  Is it really asking for ALL new houses to be better than mine?

 

Much of the present problems are simply down to poor implementation.  In recent years I have wired two new builds where parts of the insulation were installed appallingly badly almost to the point it might as well not have been there.  Present building regs inspections missed that in both cases.  

 

Roll on 5 years and I predict we will be seeing threads "Why is my Scottish Passivehoose costing so much to heat"

 

 

[JohnMo]

The training needs to be more like that in Europe, you have to do a set number of years and qualifications, then work for a company for a further number of years.  In the UK, can walk past a time served guy and then set up shop as a building firm.

[ProDave]

4 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

How can I copyright passivehoose and make a shilling?

Are you SURE that is a term going to be used?  Or just some journalistic slang?

 

There are some things you might do for not a lot of ££ that might be worth a punt but I won't say as I am considering a punt.

[Kelvin]

They won’t go for passivhaus certification it’ll be setting building regs standards to passiv like levels. The challenge will be to get the current generation of builders to buy into it. I overheard a couple of builders refer to an air tightness course they were going on as that air tightness bollocks. 

[Tennentslager]

Oh it can be done, passive standards achieved in ex council high rise here in Maryhill.

https://passivhaustrust.org.uk/news/detail/?nId=868

Residents report that they love it, very low bills and great airy feel with triple glazed balconies 

 

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, Tennentslager said:

Scot Gov will now back a private member's bill for new building regulations introducing passivehoose standards or a Scottish equivalent.😜😜

Thanks for this...I had missed this news.

Reading the hyperlinked report is interesting.

6% of respondents objected to the principle. Total objection from Cala homes and Barratt homes....saying the regs are good enough.

 

The extra cost in building properly in the first place will be as much as thd upgrade I'd think. They will have yo start using only skilled builders. Thd easy solution is standard robust detailing, that is easier to build than a bodge.

Air test every unit. The owner will save more than the test cost.

 

Thoughts on the extra build cost?

£20k??? per unit.    Comes straight off the land value.

[saveasteading]

BTW our excellent joiner who built our stick built section, (*) does not understand airtightness. Vcl layer not taped, and he had never had to do it before and so wasn't going to do ours. We had to do it. Implication being that lots of new houses are not built properly.

So training and qc really will be issues.

 

(*) I watched him doing it and it was highly skilled and efficient, and solved problems,  so had done it often. Had been to building college too, so presumably the tutors don't know either.

[Carrerahill]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

I was aware this was coming and had a ‘debate’ with our timber kit supplier about it. My argument was I didn’t want to build a house that ended up well below the regs shortly after completion. They struggled to understand this and stuck to the line you are building to better than the current regs so won’t affect us 🙄

They are so blind, so unimaginative, so lacking in foresight and ignorant.

 

 

[jamieled]

I do wonder how much of this is just a bit of political posturing. If you were genuinely worried about domestic energy use surely spending the money on retrofit schemes, training and development would be of more use. Harder to do though.

[Tennentslager]

3 minutes ago, jamieled said:

I do wonder how much of this is just a bit of political posturing. If you were genuinely worried about domestic energy use surely spending the money on retrofit schemes, training and development would be of more use. Harder to do though.

See my other post about the passive high rise blocks.

*Some* are doing it but this retrofit was £13m for 350 plus homes.

[Kelvin]

46 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

They are so blind, so unimaginative, so lacking in foresight and ignorant.

 

 

Yep a bit frustrating. As it is our as built house will far exceed what they designed as standard. 

[Ralph]

I've had almost as many "air tightness is bollocks" "houses need to breath" "you'll get damp"  comments as I've had "ASHP is bollocks and will cost you a fortune" 

 

Having said that I've also had a few "you'll heat that house with a candle" comments.

[saveasteading]

The more ignorant, the more arrogant and certain?

[Marvin]

Why the Scottish government wants to tweak the passive house standard is mad!

 

How much will they spend faffing about fixing something that is not broken!

 

Can't they just copy and paste off the internet like every other kid does with their homework?*

 

Passive houses started in Germany. Scotland is very temperate and nowhere near as cold. Even countries further south in Europe, such as Germany have much colder winters than Scotland!

 

*Ok maybe translate into English, sorry Scottish.

[JohnMo]

Various trades I had on site, all confused by airtightness and insulation in general.  But the best comment I had was when they saw how much insulation was going under the floor, told me straight I was stupid, and wasting my money, as heat only goes upwards, not down.

[Roger440]

3 hours ago, Onoff said:

A brilliant concept but what will ensure the mass homebuilders do them properly with the attention to detail that's needed? Going to need to be a sea change too in the attitudes of many trades.

 

They wont build them properly. They will just be more inventive about getting them signed off. 

 

The majority of the trades, nor the BCO's will ever understand. Which is why they will have to work round it.

 

The few that do will make an awful lot of money.

 

Its simply not realistic to replace most of the existing workforce with different people who want are smart enough to understand AND want to work outside in all weathers.

[Roger440]

3 hours ago, JohnMo said:

 

 

 

 

The unaware population will either switch off the MVHR or not change the filters, unaware what its for or why they have it.  Then complain to the press that new house is full of black mould, government will U turn shortly after.

 

This. 100% guaranteed. Not so sure of a U turn, but the builders will get the blame.