When can i move in !

[bob the builder 2]

Hello All

 

A obvious question but what is the minimum i need to do to 'move into' my self build.

 

Ideally this would not trigger the VAT countdown but i accept i might have to may council tax.

 

Will i need to get sign off from the building regs officer for example ?

 

Many thanks

 

Bob

[nod]

Electric and gas certified 

You don’t need BC sign off 

We were in-for 5 months last time before we got round to sign off

It will trigger CT But if you have got this far without triggering CT your doing ok We had a bill before we had water power Just a basic shell 

[Barryscotland]

Think you need to apply for a temporary habitation certificate?  Or just move in and if anybody says anything plead ignorance then apply

[Mr Punter]

2 hours ago, Barryscotland said:

Think you need to apply for a temporary habitation certificate?  Or just move in and if anybody says anything plead ignorance then apply

 

That applies to Scotland.  In England there is nothing to stop you moving in.

[ToughButterCup]

I moved in as soon as there was water to our shower, and the toilet worked properly.

Moving in early has some advantages. It lets you see things from an internal perspective rather than looking at a set of plans or imagining what the space might look like if and when you have finished one particular room. SWMBO moved in a few weeks later.( We built in our garden) . 

 

I must confess though that we still managed to put electric sockets in the wrong places. Light switches in the wrong places. And make other niggly little errors.

 

If you keep your  HERAS up for as long as you can, that will tend to delay any visits by the local valuation officer. Be sure to put a notice on the HERAS  making it clear that permission needs to be sought before getting onto the site. 

[Triassic]

Can someone just confirm, ‘moving in’ doesn’t affect the self build VAT claim down the line?

[bob the builder 2]

Thanks All

 

So i just need the 'basics' and no real sign offs to move in ?

 

What about insurance etc ?

 

cheers

 

bob

 

[bob the builder 2]

Hello All

 

Just reigniting this thread.

 

We are motoring along but really need to get in to save money on rent.

 

Do we need any approvals to move in ?

 

Cheers

 

Bob 

[Mr Punter]

No approvals needed unless there are any "Before occupation" planning conditions.

[Jilly]

On 21/09/2022 at 16:44, Triassic said:

Can someone just confirm, ‘moving in’ doesn’t affect the self build VAT claim down the line?

I think you get 3 months but not certain exactly what triggers it if you start living there before completion.

[ToughButterCup]

Yes I can confirm that moving in before completion does not affect your subsequent VAT claim.

 

What does affect it it is the LA's Valuation Officer's visit to your new property. If the officer judges you to have been living in the property,  then the valuation for Council Tax process starts.

 

In short keep your HERAS up and locked even though you are living in the house. 

[cwr]

There was a report in one of the self build type mags about 2 years ago warning that HMRC were taking the point of someone moving in as the start of the 3 months. Apparently a few people had their vat claims rejected. Not sure how HMRC were proving occupancy, but one to watch for. 

[ToughButterCup]

If there's one thing about HMRC and VAT claims, it's the consistency of their inconsistence.

 

A partial answer to @cwr above is to say that in my case, because I was stupid enough to take my HERAS down, the local Valuation Officer (works for the LA) was able to walk on site and talk to me. (I was fettlin' summat outside) . And stupidly, instead of inviting her to go away, I chatted her. Big mistake.

 

She it was who wrote to the national Valuation Office. They in turn initiate the process of adding the property to the Valuation Register. Once that decision has been communicated to you ( -stress-the date of the letter telling you about that decision is THE Key) the clock starts running.

 

In answer to Triassic above, yes it does. It starts the clock. Delay too long and your application might well be rejected unless there are exceptional circumstances.

 

 

 

[ProDave]

What really really annoys me about this, is the law (or however you want to describe it) says self builders are entitled to reclaim the VAT on a self build.

 

But then the department tasked with implementing the refund scheme seem to operate in a way designed to see how many people they can exclude from claiming the refund.

 

This has been known to be happening for years.

 

Why has the body that set the "law" not given the refund people a good kick up the aris to make sure they implement the scheme properly without actively trying to deny claimants?  the only logical conclusion from the fact they have not, is the people that set the "law" want it to be so that people can be excluded for silly trivial reasons.

 

I think Covid helped us, because it stopped the valuation officer making his monthly snooping visits to our site.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

...

But then the department tasked with implementing the refund scheme seem to operate in a way designed to see how many people they can exclude from claiming the refund.

...

 

There's a simple answer to your question. 

The VAT refund rules tell us what is allowed: but because those rules are both poorly drafted, and the people administering them aren't co-ordinated properly, errors of omission and commission occur. Add that to 'customers' who genuinely try it on, and you have a mess.

 

It's people that are the problem Dave, people.

[joe90]

33 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

It's people that are the problem Dave, people.

By that I take it you mean the VAT claimers?, if so I must disagree with you (on the whole). I missed claiming some of my VAT because we had to move in, the clock was ticking but some outside work that would have been covered was not yet done. On previous threads there have been quite a few cases where the VAT office have lost their case and had to pay up. Let’s just hope that this forum can guide people to do what’s best.

[jack]

On 17/12/2022 at 21:28, ToughButterCup said:

Yes I can confirm that moving in before completion does not affect your subsequent VAT claim.

 

I'd rephrase this as "should not, but definitely don't rely on it".

 

Rather than re-hash a discussion that's been had in detail elsewhere on BuildHub, I'd point people here (I think you may need to have made a certain number of posts to access this sub-forum):

 

 

14 hours ago, cwr said:

There was a report in one of the self build type mags about 2 years ago warning that HMRC were taking the point of someone moving in as the start of the 3 months. Apparently a few people had their vat claims rejected. Not sure how HMRC were proving occupancy, but one to watch for. 

 

It was a large number of claimants over many years. Originally, HMRC said on the claim form that if there was any question over the completion date, the date on the completion certificate could be relied upon.

 

They removed that language from the form perhaps 10 years ago. Over time, they tightened up their approach until the reached the point they were interpreting the word "completion" or "complete" (can't remember which) in the relevant act to mean that any activity that could be mapped to that word started the three month clock. This was despite the claim form itself plainly stating that the clock started when the completion certificate issued, unless the claimant chose to use different evidence of completion.

 

The trigger they most commonly used was being placed on the valuation register, presumably because that's easily verifiable information and is prima facie evidence that the house was complete enough to be habitable. But there's at least one example (it's somewhere on the forum) of them finding a Google streetview image and concluding that the house looked finished several months before the claim was submitted.

 

2 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

If there's one thing about HMRC and VAT claims, it's the consistency of their inconsistence.

 

^^^ Now we're talking ^^^

 

I put my claim in 5 years after we were put on the council tax valuation register (which was around the time we moved in). I have absolutely no idea why our claim was allowed without so much as a murmur when others were still being rejected at that time, even for people who'd moved in only a few months before making a claim.

 

One factor appears to be whether there are are receipts for significant amounts dated shortly before the claim is made.

 

HMRC has lost a number of cases at the appeals tribunal over the last few years. Unfortunately, since the tribunal is administrative rather than judicial, every decision stands by itself and cannot be used as precedent for future cases. They should tend towards a consistent outcome over time, but for the time being there's always a risk of a particular tribunal going against you. That happened to one claimant shortly after a couple of the cases that were most damning of HMRC's behaviour.

 

@bob the builder 2, I don't think there's a simple answer to your question, but hopefully the answers so far will help you identify the likely risks.