UVC in basement plant room but no drainage for overflow

[PeterW]

17 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

had a Civil engineering company design the drainage and whenever I asked about internal waste their stock answer was 'that's an internal plumbing issue'. I also had an M&E company design my heating/solar/MVHR systems but never once did they mention a waste pipe for the UVC

So I take it they didn’t talk to each other ..?? And this is the reason you need an overarching M&E design that brings it all together as it’s the interfaces that cause the problems. If you paid your architect to do the design process end to end then this is his issue, but if he was only there as the crayon jockey they it’s one to learn from and move on

 

27 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

thanks. I wonder with the cost of the copper pipe and labour how close to the £800 for the pump it'd get?

So your maximum D2 length is 18m with no bends, so if you assume you’ve got 2, then it’s 16m of 28mm copper at £8/m, 6 or so fittings at £20 and a couple of hours at most. That is £2-300 max, and don’t forget your £800 pump will also need pipework. 

[Pocster]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

So I take it they didn’t talk to each other ..?? And this is the reason you need an overarching M&E design that brings it all together as it’s the interfaces that cause the problems. If you paid your architect to do the design process end to end then this is his issue, but if he was only there as the crayon jockey they it’s one to learn from and move on

Same experience for me. Architect made no mention of the UVC needing 'overflow'. UVC installer did though. I recall ( it was a few years ago ) that he said pump - I pulled a face and pointed at the perimeter drain. He seemed happy with that. Though lets be honest a perimeter drain is plastic and isn't afaik designed to take boiling water.

The only 'professionals' I found that would communicate ( because they have to ) was the architect with SE. This would usually result in an argument to a problem where they both recommend I install BOTH their methods. Needless to say I would simply choose what method I determine was best as I felt they were being A-holes and 'professional' pride ( not to admit the other solution was better by the other party ) was the issue......

[Pocster]

@Thorfun ; my view of these things is you HAVE solutions. Whether it's a pipe run or a 800 quid pump. Don't beat yourself up over a relatively small cost addition to the entire project.

Currently as SWMBO requests (wants!) a basement WC ( which I didn't plan for ) is adding around 3k in materials ( macerator toilet and pumping station ). So you got off lightly!

[ProDave]

It astounds me how many people get this wrong.  a house i just finished wiring, I noticed the plumber has piped the D2 pipe in 22mm, probably okay for the short runs, but it goes straight from the blow off valves down and outside, no tundish fitted.  I will be interesting to see if BC notice this.

[Pocster]

10 minutes ago, ProDave said:

It astounds me how many people get this wrong.  a house i just finished wiring, I noticed the plumber has piped the D2 pipe in 22mm, probably okay for the short runs, but it goes straight from the blow off valves down and outside, no tundish fitted.  I will be interesting to see if BC notice this.

Seem to remember you guys noticed no tundish in one of my rentals . Job was all signed off and ‘ finished ‘ apparently. I got him back to add one though he was of course pissy for an ‘optional ‘ addition . It’s a safety feature so it’s mandatory ( not just rules but even in my own view ) .

[Thorfun]

23 minutes ago, PeterW said:

So I take it they didn’t talk to each other ..?? And this is the reason you need an overarching M&E design that brings it all together as it’s the interfaces that cause the problems. If you paid your architect to do the design process end to end then this is his issue, but if he was only there as the crayon jockey they it’s one to learn from and move on

nope. didn't talk to each other. lesson learnt and I've moved on! will try and remember it all if there's ever a next time!

 

24 minutes ago, PeterW said:

So your maximum D2 length is 18m with no bends, so if you assume you’ve got 2, then it’s 16m of 28mm copper at £8/m, 6 or so fittings at £20 and a couple of hours at most. That is £2-300 max, and don’t forget your £800 pump will also need pipework. 

I don't think I can go the only potential route in less than 16m. but I'll go and have a proper measure up. it sounds like the pump route might be the only way if I want to put the UVC in the basement.

[Thorfun]

18 minutes ago, pocster said:

@Thorfun ; my view of these things is you HAVE solutions. Whether it's a pipe run or a 800 quid pump. Don't beat yourself up over a relatively small cost addition to the entire project.

Currently as SWMBO requests (wants!) a basement WC ( which I didn't plan for ) is adding around 3k in materials ( macerator toilet and pumping station ). So you got off lightly!

yeah, I know, it's still a hard one to swallow. think I'll go out and do some digger work to help take my mind of this problem for now.

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

yeah, I know, it's still a hard one to swallow. think I'll go out and do some digger work to help take my mind of this problem for now.

I’ve got a 60cm wide and deep hole to break in concrete in an enclosed area . Swap jobs ? 😁👍

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

nope. didn't talk to each other. lesson learnt and I've moved on! will try and remember it all if there's ever a next time!

 

I don't think I can go the only potential route in less than 16m. but I'll go and have a proper measure up. it sounds like the pump route might be the only way if I want to put the UVC in the basement.

35mm buys you another 9m but at that stage I would be in Polypropylene anyway for cost - it’s the holes through studs you’ll have issues with at that size  

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

35mm buys you another 9m but at that stage I would be in Polypropylene anyway for cost - it’s the holes through studs you’ll have issues with at that size  

so it's approx 20m with 2 x bends and a hole through a 250mm reinforced concrete wall. I'm definitely leaning towards the pump solution even though it's the most costly. 😞 

[Mr Punter]

Is there anywhere on the ground floor you could site the UVC?  It would mean hot water gets to showers and taps quicker.

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

Is there anywhere on the ground floor you could site the UVC?  It would mean hot water gets to showers and taps quicker.

there is a potential place but it's in a cupboard off the garage (but within the insulated envelope of the building). but it's in a far corner so definitely not central whereas the plant room is central to the house just one floor down. so would actually be longer runs in the only cupboard that could accommodate it on the ground floor.

[Conor]

From my understanding the waste pipe on an UVC is part of an emergency pressure relief system? In which case if it's ever activated, it'll have the full mains pressure behind it... In which case you could just have the pipe run up to the ceiling and connect in to a soil pipe using a saddle and boss adapter?

[Thorfun]

3 minutes ago, Conor said:

From my understanding the waste pipe on an UVC is part of an emergency pressure relief system? In which case if it's ever activated, it'll have the full mains pressure behind it... In which case you could just have the pipe run up to the ceiling and connect in to a soil pipe using a saddle and boss adapter?

but does that conform to G3 regulations?

[Conor]

Just now, Thorfun said:

but does that conform to G3 regulations?

Speak to your plumber. BCO never looked at my setup, just the certificate for the cylinder. The waste still isn't connected up.

[Thorfun]

Just now, Conor said:

Speak to your plumber. BCO never looked at my setup, just the certificate for the cylinder. The waste still isn't connected up.

my neighbour is a plumber so I plan to speak to him soon on the subject. tbh, I'm not fussed about BCO sign off but I do want it to be safe! 

[PeterW]

19 minutes ago, Conor said:

In which case you could just have the pipe run up to the ceiling and connect in to a soil pipe using a saddle and boss adapter?

No as it has to have an air break and a visible outlet (tundish) so cannot be a sealed loop. 

[TonyT]

I would prefer a drain connection to a pump that could go wrong and fail.. but that’s just following the KISS principles.. 

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, TonyT said:

I would prefer a drain connection to a pump that could go wrong and fail.. but that’s just following the KISS principles.. 

yeah, just a bit of a logistical nightmare. will think upon it some more and decide on one of the 3 options I have.

[Thorfun]

hi all. resurrecting this as my UVC is now installed and want to find a solution before the heating engineers come back to finish off.

 

they have suggested this https://www.aspenpumps.com/en-gb/aspen-pumps/tank-pumps/hot-water-economy as a potential solution and is substantially less that this one that @TonyT suggested from BES https://www.bes.co.uk/high-temperature-pressure-relief-pump-23745/?q=23745 

 

@PeterW? @Nickfromwales? or anyone else?

[Pocster]

You’re going to end up with 10 pumps in your build ! 😉😎

[Thorfun]

4 minutes ago, pocster said:

You’re going to end up with 10 pumps in your build ! 😉😎

love pumps

[JohnMo]

Watching a video on RED heat pumps and they mentioned their cylinder - Not a UVC

 

http://www.red-limited.com/dhw-tank-info/

 

May not help yourself, but could help others looking

[Thorfun]

what the Aspen pump has going for it is it has 2 x inputs. so i could potentially feed another device output in to it and kill 2 birds with one stone.

[Nickfromwales]

31 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

what the Aspen pump has going for it is it has 2 x inputs. so i could potentially feed another device output in to it and kill 2 birds with one stone.

What bits of kit need a discharge? Best to start there?