even costco getting in on the act

[Wil]

In terms of ROI;

 

All electric here, installed 14 panels May'21 5kWp panels, 3.68kWp inverter, goods cost around £3.5k (self installed) that should have been less but I changed my mind and bought a second inverter and haven't got round to flogging the first one.

 

They've generated: 4.66MWh

I've exported (for free): 692.35kWh

at our old rate of 23p per kWh during the day that's roughly £1070 generated and £159 given back to the grid. I've 'saved' £911. Slightly less than 4 years payback. Given electricity is now 30p per kWh and heading up, I really ought to get on with the other two phases. Although I'd just end up exporting loads for nothing in the summer it'd help somewhat in winter!

[Carrerahill]

8 minutes ago, Wil said:

In terms of ROI;

 

All electric here, installed 14 panels May'21 5kWp panels, 3.68kWp inverter, goods cost around £3.5k (self installed) that should have been less but I changed my mind and bought a second inverter and haven't got round to flogging the first one.

 

They've generated: 4.66MWh

I've exported (for free): 692.35kWh

at our old rate of 23p per kWh during the day that's roughly £1070 generated and £159 given back to the grid. I've 'saved' £911. Slightly less than 4 years payback. Given electricity is now 30p per kWh and heading up, I really ought to get on with the other two phases. Although I'd just end up exporting loads for nothing in the summer it'd help somewhat in winter!

I am glad of your anecdotal evidence that backs my point.

 

Well done - those figures are good and about what I am seeing.

 

What drove you down this route? Just a preparedness to go it alone?

Edited June 30, 2022 by Carrerahill

[Vijay]

1 hour ago, Carrerahill said:

 So much so I am thinking about getting the Bio Diesel processor out of retirement.

 

@CarrerahillWere you on the old veg/bio forum?

[ProDave]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Cheap DIY installs will not be MCS so you CANNOT get SEG payments so would extend the payback not shorten it. Also allows cart Blanche for poor installations, incorrect shading surveys / mitigation etc. 

 

In the 3 or more years mine has been running, I have exported just 310kWh, so good has been my self usage.  Even if I was able to claim the pittance of 5.5p dumb export payment, I would have received £17.05  Just imagine how much extra an MCS install would cost Vs DIY, and then tell me the payback time of that extra cost of the install when that is all I would get, less than £10 per year.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Carrerahill said:

How can you make a statement such as "...nor is it factual"?

because you made a very coarse generalisation. That’s why. 
 

3 hours ago, Carrerahill said:

Rip off installers make it expensive and put huge mark-ups on the equipment.

There are no longer “huge margins” put onto commercial equipment within quotes, and have never been whilst I’ve been in business. What do you think is huge? 100%? 

Costs in quotes are transparent, and you can only get “ripped off” if you do not do your own due diligence. It’s 2022, and most 11 year olds know how to use Google   

 

1 hour ago, Carrerahill said:

I'll be taking the lighting loads, to start with, onto an off-grid setup with grid changeover for consecutive grey days, I will be doing this within the next couple of months and charging batteries to minimise export.

A non standard install with micro-grid and hybrid inverters? A lot of effort, maintenance and not apples for apples. 

You should reserve your comments for an off grid thread ( afaic ) as most of what you’ve posted is regards to a bespoke, home-brew system which is non standard and incomparable to a plug and play domestic retail installation. 
 

For completeness, I am installing pretty much as you are in my own home, but I understand it’ll need extra monitoring, it’s more complex, I cannot get paid for export, and it’s only the equipment which will have a warranty. 
 

Apples vs oranges sorry! 

 

 

[jayc89]

2 hours ago, joe90 said:

 

In roof installation saving cost of tiles/slates,!!

 

I've not fully costed it, but slate tiles will probably come in around £40/sqm. It's difficult to get concrete prices for PV tiles, but from what I can find online I guess they will be approx £300/sqm. 7.5x the cost of standard slates?

[joe90]

20 minutes ago, jayc89 said:

 

I've not fully costed it, but slate tiles will probably come in around £40/sqm. It's difficult to get concrete prices for PV tiles, but from what I can find online I guess they will be approx £300/sqm. 7.5x the cost of standard slates?

Ah, no, in roof trays that accept PV panels so you only slate around the panels. Example https://www.deegesolar.co.uk/integrated_solar_panels/

[Nickfromwales]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

In the 3 or more years mine has been running, I have exported just 310kWh, so good has been my self usage.  Even if I was able to claim the pittance of 5.5p dumb export payment, I would have received £17.05  Just imagine how much extra an MCS install would cost Vs DIY, and then tell me the payback time of that extra cost of the install when that is all I would get, less than £10 per year.

I know, and that’s great statistics. But you’re a qualified electrician, electronically repair professional, and can do this. 
Commercial PV installs priced to residential domestic clients need to be robust, plug and play, and forgettable. 
You and I, and a load of others here, know what WE could do. 
 

Folk berating an industry with incorrect assumptions, eg companies which supply out-of-the-box retail solutions at elevated costs to Drs / receptionists / other possibly non DIY professionals shouldn’t really be doing that without directly comparable evidence.

 

Some of the Ch*****se manufacturers are avoided, by respected members of the industry, for child / slave labour reasons. 

[Nickfromwales]

54 minutes ago, jayc89 said:

 

I've not fully costed it, but slate tiles will probably come in around £40/sqm. It's difficult to get concrete prices for PV tiles, but from what I can find online I guess they will be approx £300/sqm. 7.5x the cost of standard slates?

Solar slates and solar concrete tiles, plus BiPV are all niche so of course attract a higher price point. £8.5k of modular PV would be over £11k in concrete tiles for eg.

£8.5k turnkey installation for a 4kWp top German manufactured panel would consume about 21m2 so roughly £404p/m2 inclusive of all equipment. 

[ProDave]

4 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I know, and that’s great statistics. But you’re a qualified electrician, electronically repair professional, and can do this. 
Commercial PV installs priced to residential domestic clients need to be robust, plug and play, and forgettable. 
You and I, and a load of others here, know what WE could do. 

Nothing about my system is that unique apart from I made my own solar PV diverter.

 

A commercially installed system with a commercial PV diverter, and a little education for the users to time shift use of big appliances to the middle of the day should achieve similar results.

[Radian]

3 hours ago, Carrerahill said:

this is however a self-build forum, things tend to be skewed towards the DIYer!

 

I've often felt like pointing that out but backed off to avoid an argument 🙄.

[Nickfromwales]

31 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Nothing about my system is that unique apart from I made my own solar PV diverter.

And the structure, and the framework, and designed it yourself for an East / West split, and entirely self-installed it and you maintain it. 
Yes, completely non unique. 🤔😑

[ProDave]

49 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

And the structure, and the framework, and designed it yourself for an East / West split, and entirely self-installed it and you maintain it. 
Yes, completely non unique. 🤔😑

East west split is not unique.  Neither is ground mount.  building a shed out of the structure I admit is less usual.

 

But a commercially installed E/W split on a roof professionally installed is not unusual.  And like any other system, if you can't fix it yourself, you get the installer to fix it for you.

[Carrerahill]

5 hours ago, Vijay said:

 

@CarrerahillWere you on the old veg/bio forum?

No I wasn't a member but I did follow posts - good forum. 

 

You an ex/present Bio man?

 

 

[Carrerahill]

4 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

because you made a very coarse generalisation. That’s why. 
 

There are no longer “huge margins” put onto commercial equipment within quotes, and have never been whilst I’ve been in business. What do you think is huge? 100%? 

Costs in quotes are transparent, and you can only get “ripped off” if you do not do your own due diligence. It’s 2022, and most 11 year olds know how to use Google   

 

A non standard install with micro-grid and hybrid inverters? A lot of effort, maintenance and not apples for apples. 

You should reserve your comments for an off grid thread ( afaic ) as most of what you’ve posted is regards to a bespoke, home-brew system which is non standard and incomparable to a plug and play domestic retail installation. 
 

For completeness, I am installing pretty much as you are in my own home, but I understand it’ll need extra monitoring, it’s more complex, I cannot get paid for export, and it’s only the equipment which will have a warranty. 
 

Apples vs oranges sorry! 

 

 

You don't read things properly, you make assumptions, you don't discuss, it is not really worth my effort replying.

 

At present I have a fully standard grid-tie solar install. So apples for apples if you want to put it that way, you cannot play that card and try to walk away from this discussion. Equipment cost only, I haven't help pay for someone's MCS subscription or a sign written van or a jumped up salesman. 

 

If you cared to read my post properly, you would note I am "planning" on doing the off-grid element as an isolated project and at extra cost and alluded to the ROI etc. separately on that item.

 

Several other forum members are now saying they have done as I have, so I am not alone doing something unfathomable, perhaps you need to step back from your position and see it from the point of view of someone who just wants a solar solution on the roof at the price it is worth and also enjoys doing this sort of thing, its a hobby of sorts. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ajn]

Am I missing something... (I am but that another story).. With peak PV production druing the middle of the day how can you use all from a 4Kw system without a battery storage system diy install or not. Most peak use is tea time.

Our previous house had 3.5kw and full FIT. In the summer we had a very hot hotwater tank but still couldn't use it all during the day. Was getting around £1.4 to £1.6k a year in FIT and five years later the system was sust paid for when we moved.

 

This property was designe to put about 4Kw south facing, lots of insulation and a GSHP but I can't get the PV to stack up even DIY... unless I can get it to feed the GSHP and that can't be done directly without a battery if the sun goes in.

 

I could just feed the HW tank as I have a spare diverter I fixed.

 

Just can't figure an answer at the moment. ...

 

Quotes from 2 MCS suppliers were both very different and didn't make sense.

 

 

[Vijay]

56 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

No I wasn't a member but I did follow posts - good forum. 

 

You an ex/present Bio man?

 

 

 

Yeah it was a great forum with helpful and knowledgeable people. I started making it 2008 and still going. Oil got difficult to get hold of though.................

[joe90]

59 minutes ago, Ajn said:

Am I missing something...

 

1 hour ago, Ajn said:

unless I can get it to feed the GSHP and that can't be done directly without a battery if the sun goes in.

Well if I install PV I will time my ASHP to come on at say 11am and go off at 4pm, that way the ASHP which feeds both DHW and UFH (when required) to use any excess generated electricity, if the sun is not shining it will use grid power. Yes, can’t use it all in summer but it’s always a compromise. I will get no FIT but any going to the grid saves other forms of generation.

1 hour ago, Ajn said:

Most peak use is tea time.

Well in the summer the sun should still be shining (a bit). I am not sure that tea time cooking uses more power than DHW and/or heating 🤔

[Onoff]

There may come a time of grid shortages when we are grateful for any power.

 

I'd rather have PV than not for a bit of security. How much is that worth?

[Carrerahill]

3 hours ago, Onoff said:

There may come a time of grid shortages when we are grateful for any power.

 

I'd rather have PV than not for a bit of security. How much is that worth?

This is my thought and why I am having a off-grit/island mode portion of the main system. Also why I have a WBS if I am honest.

[ProDave]

12 hours ago, Ajn said:

Am I missing something... (I am but that another story).. With peak PV production druing the middle of the day how can you use all from a 4Kw system without a battery storage system diy install or not. Most peak use is tea time.

Our previous house had 3.5kw and full FIT. In the summer we had a very hot hotwater tank but still couldn't use it all during the day. Was getting around £1.4 to £1.6k a year in FIT and five years later the system was sust paid for when we moved.

 

We self use just by timing the ASHP to start it's water heating at 11AM and by using the big appliances, washing machine, tumble dryer and dishwasher one at a time around mid day.  Solar PV diverter to send the rest to DHW consumes most of the rest.  the ASHP heats the HW tank to 48 degrees leaving plenty of room for excess PV to heat it more.  I recon about 1/3 of the PV production goes to the immersion heater.

 

The only time we export is at mid day on a sunny day if nothing else is on and the PV can generate a little more than the immersion heater can absorb even at 100%.  In the shoulder seasons I can optimise that further by using a 700W convector heater as an additional dump load, but we don't want that on in the summer so a little gets exported.

 

Ours is east / west split to flatten the mid day curve a bit, but it is hampered by morning and evening shading from trees which has much more effect in the summer when the trees are in leaf.

 

Where I think batteries start to make sense is on a larger system where it would indeed be very hard to self use it all in real time.

[SteamyTea]

18 hours ago, ProDave said:

and a little education for the users

That is the nub of it.

I have tried for years to set up a basic energy understanding course. No takers.

People carry so much baggage with them that, in all reality, it is not worth doing.

Only got to look at the two camps in here, no point education the people that have self installed PV, and no point educating the ones that think it is not worth doing, even though we know they are misguided.

All I do now is tell people what and where to buy. Then it is up to them.

 

It really is not hard for most households to lop 30% off their electrical usage, 60% is possible, harder though.

[Ronski]

I already have a 4kw array, installed in December 2015, it's roughly £1000 off paying for it's self.

 

I'm waiting on one quote from a local installer who's actually been out for a site visit, and is willing to let me do some of the work. If it's too unreasonable, then I'll DIY the whole lot, with the help of an electrician.

 

Plan is to run two 25mm SWA cables out to the garage,  and divert the mains supply via the garage.   Victron 8kva inverter, and 14.4kwh DIY battery, for whole house back up, with the addition of another 5kw of panels on the garage. Can add more batteries if required, and more panels if I wanted, but the last two roofs remaining are not ideal for solar.

 

Only wish I thought of this back in 2002 when we built the extension, would of been easier to run in the cables.