richo106 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Hi All We are just going through some bits with our builder, we will be having a new chimney constructed and having a log burner installed, I have attached a pic that we (the wife) has decided on I have a couple of questions if any one could help: Can the log burner just sit on a tiled floor? Or does it need a hearth? What is the best way to line inside the fireplace, I am guessing plaster will just crack? When does the fire get installed or can the builder do everything first and the fire place can be installed after? It will be a direct air fed log burner so just planning on going straight out the back...this the best way to do it? Do the builders need to do anything to leave it ready for the fire installers? Any other advice/information would be greatly appreciate on this matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieled Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Some of the newer stoves can fit on a tiled floor in practical terms, but I had thought there was some sort of building reg about delineating the area around the stove if there was no obvious hearth. May be worth checking this. A stove can be installed quite close to the end of the build, but if you do this then you need to be careful about how well both the flue and direct air feed penetrations are sealed. Related to this, you'd probably not want to finidh all your decorating before getting the stove in as there are bound to be scuffs etc, particularly when it's so close to the walls. Air feed out the back is fine as long as the stove is set up for it. Builders will need to ensure that if you're going for it as per the photo, that the distance to the nearest walls meets with the regs and that there's a reasonable prospect of the stove installer getting the flue and direct air feed in without causing too much damage. BTW, even if the stove in the photo is a convection stove (which I assume it is given the clearance to walls), to me it doesn't look like the brightest idea in the world to situate it like that. You'd be heating up the walls above pretty well and room air circulation might not be great if the stove is recessed. On the other hand if it's just to look at it probably doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Read the manufacturers install manual that will give you the clearances and surfaces required. I would only have a HETAS qualified install, that way you get no questions from BC at sign off and your insurance if anything goes wrong later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recoveringbuilder Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 We just had one installed last week. We had to have 20mm slabs laid on top of our slab floor and a hearth 450mm to the front. Installed by a Hetas registered installer as previously mentioned it has to be signed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adsibob Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 5 hours ago, richo106 said: Can the log burner just sit on a tiled floor? Or does it need a hearth? Depends on the tiles. It needs to sit on something that is heat resistant. Porcelain is sufficiently heat resistant but only in certain thicknesses. Not sure what that thickness is though. If your tiles are porcelain but not thick enough, you could perhaps double up the tiles to create a hearth of tiles on top of your tiled floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 2 hours ago, recoveringbuilder said: We just had one installed last week. We had to have 20mm slabs laid on top of our slab floor and a hearth 450mm to the front. Installed by a Hetas registered installer as previously mentioned it has to be signed off. Do you mind me asking what kind of price the install was? We've not got round to putting one in yet but a mate had some quotes in our area and they were north of £8k for the install alone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adsibob Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 5 hours ago, Ralph said: Do you mind me asking what kind of price the install was? We've not got round to putting one in yet but a mate had some quotes in our area and they were north of £8k for the install alone. That’s insane. I’m in London and the install alone was about £1600 plus VAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 We were £2000 for install, that included slate hearth and full stainless double wall flue, trims etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 £2000 buys about 30,000 kWh of mains gas. Which would be enough to heat my house for about 25 winters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 13 hours ago, Adsibob said: That’s insane. I’m in London and the install alone was about £1600 plus VAT. 13 hours ago, JohnMo said: We were £2000 for install, that included slate hearth and full stainless double wall flue, trims etc. This is about the level I was thinking. @johnMo who did you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: £2000 buys about 30,000 kWh of mains gas. Which would be enough to heat my house for about 25 winters. We have no mains gas but a pretty much unlimited supply of free logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 31 minutes ago, Ralph said: free logs Like children, that cost nothing to make, you will soon find out, they are not 'free'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 46 minutes ago, Ralph said: This is about the level I was thinking. @johnMo who did you use? We used Speyside Stoves (NE Scotland) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 17 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Like children, that cost nothing to make, you will soon find out, they are not 'free'. Nothing ever is 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Re the hearth thickness. That depends on the stove manufacturer. Generally most of the ones with the firebox raised up a bit don't require a constructional hearth, but do require a 12mm thick hearth that can be stone or glass and can be laid on a wooden floor. That 12mm rules out a lot of floor tiles, unless you try counting the thickness of the adhesive in that 12mm? The flue pipes for my stove cost over £1000 just for the parts, more than the stove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recoveringbuilder Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 On 01/06/2022 at 16:20, Ralph said: Do you mind me asking what kind of price the install was? We've not got round to putting one in yet but a mate had some quotes in our area and they were north of £8k for the install alone. We put in a 15kw parkray, we had a good bit of the twin wall already in situ because we previously had a biomass stove so we only needed a length and a couple of bends. The installer also lined the space it went into and provided slate for around the opening and an oak beam. The whole thing cost £4.5k , installation was just over £1k included in that price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 50 minutes ago, recoveringbuilder said: We put in a 15kw parkray, we had a good bit of the twin wall already in situ because we previously had a biomass stove so we only needed a length and a couple of bends. The installer also lined the space it went into and provided slate for around the opening and an oak beam. The whole thing cost £4.5k , installation was just over £1k included in that price Looks nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennentslager Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 HETAS is an English thing for fitters although building regulations still apply in Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recoveringbuilder Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 48 minutes ago, Tennentslager said: HETAS is an English thing for fitters although building regulations still apply in Scotland Not really, our chap was Hetas registered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Ours were also HETAS qualified installers all Scottish based. 2 hours ago, Tennentslager said: HETAS is an English thing for fitters although building regulations still apply in Scotland Hetas say "Scottish Building Regulations do not make it mandatory to be a member of HETAS. However HETAS Registration may be a means of demonstrating competence for works carried out under Building Regulations." Scottish building regs say "The Heating Equipment Testing and Approval Scheme (HETAS) is an independent organisation for setting standards of safety, efficiency and performance for testing and approval of solid fuels, solid mineral fuel and wood burning appliances and associated equipment and services for the UK solid fuel domestic heating industry. It operates a registration scheme for competent Engineers and Companies working in the domestic solid fuel market. The Official Guide to Approved Solid Fuel Products and Services published by HETAS Ltd (http://www.hetas.co.uk/) contains a list of Registered Heating Engineers deemed competent in the various modules listed, e.g. for the installation, inspection and maintenance of solid fuel appliances. There are other organisations representing the solid fuel industry but neither they nor HETAS have a mandatory status. Either way, use of a registered installer demonstrates compliance to building regs and they have a much stronger position, than your none registered builder or individual, whenever any challenge is presented by building control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) On 01/06/2022 at 09:53, richo106 said: Can the log burner just sit on a tiled floor? Or does it need a hearth? The building regs in England divide fires/wood/coal burners into two groups.. Those certified incapable of raising the Hearth over 100C and those not certified. If the wood burner you choose is certified then you only need a 12mm thick Hearth. However I was told this must be 12 mm above the surrounding floor. The idea is that the small step up discourages rugs from being placed too close. So in England at least I don't think the photo you posted would comply because there is no 12mm step. What you can do is put a sheet or 12mm glass, slate or granite on top of the tiles as per the photo posted by @recoveringbuilder. I visited a Monumental Mason who had some black granite worktop lying around. Got him to hone off the gloss so it's matt and cut to my plywood template. The shape and dimensions of this glass or whatever is defined in Approved Document J Duagram 26(a) on page 38.. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/combustion-appliances-and-fuel-storage-systems-approved-document-j If the thing isn't certified look at Diagram 24 and 25. Edited June 2, 2022 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Temp said: However I was told this must be 12 mm above the surrounding floor. Para 2.26 says there must be a visible boundary and that "A way of achieving this would be to provide a change of level". So technically you could have a flat area if the tiles were a different colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 7 hours ago, Temp said: Para 2.26 says there must be a visible boundary and that "A way of achieving this would be to provide a change of level". So technically you could have a flat area if the tiles were a different colour. In our last house, we had a constructional hearth of the required size and I tiled it with ceramic tiles to give the finish. the rest of the floor was wood, and I chose to tile the hearth so it was dead level with the wooden floor. The building inspector did not like it, he huffed and puffed and grumbled, but it did have a clear change of colour / material and in the end he accepted it and issued the completion certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundtuit Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 A hearth isn't always needed, it depends on your choice of stove. This is ours; ceramic tiles over anhydrous screed, HETAS installed and no issue with BC at sign-off (England). (The glass on the floor was a later addition to keep the grout clean). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john123451 Posted September 25 Share Posted September 25 Hi Richo, When I was looking for questions for my new build I found this page helpful: https://bonfire.co.uk/help-guides/wood-burning-stoves-for-new-build-homes/ It shows that you will require an air vent and it is probably best to install on an external wall. You can do it yourself and sign it off with building control but probably cheaper in the long run getting it done right first time by a HETAS engineer. I found it was difficult to get building control to come out to site. Hope this helps. Kind Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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