Zero % VAT on insulation

[Digger1]

Spoke to my local supplier and they had no idea about this, same for one a large online insulation retailer.  However another company was happy to send me a proforma with zero VAT.

 

Can anyone clarify, if i go into a builders merchant and purchase insulation what rate of VAT should i be charged, if any?

 

Tried to find a straight answer on the HMRC website but struggled.

[SimonD]

Are you referring to the new rules introduced in April? If so, VAT on the installation of insulation would be reduced to 0%, but that's as long as the insulation is provided by and installed by the contractor. If you go and buy it yourself for diy install or to get someone to install it, it would still be 5% on the insulation, but the labour if you got someone in to do it, would be zero rated. Go figure who thought all this up....

 

See https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-energy-saving-materials-and-heating-equipment-notice-7086

[Digger1]

Yes i am referring to the new rules as if 1st April i did read the link you provided but struggled with it tbh.

 

So you are saying if i purchase my insulation from a retailer i should only pay 5% VAT?  My local Jewsons and Travis perkins want to charge 20%.  Makes a big difference to me since not VAT registered.

 

These online retailers also charging 20% VAT

 

https://insulation4less.co.uk/

https://www.insulationexpress.co.uk/

[SuperPav]

Insulation (supply only) is 20% not 5%. 

 

Reduced from 5% to 0% recently for Supply & Install , or just Install. 

[Temp]

I think the government is worried that if they zero rate it in BnQ we will all start buying insulation to make our houses warmer. We're much less likely to do that if we have to pay an installer to buy and fit it for us. 

[SuperPav]

The good news is that the 60% threshold rule has been dropped (except for Northern Ireland) so what i'm doing is putting all the insulation works on our house through my (VAT registered) limited company as supply and fit.

There's some corp tax to pay on the nominal labour element that I'll have to pay the company but it's still negligible compared to paying 20% VAT.

[SimonD]

2 hours ago, SuperPav said:

Insulation (supply only) is 20% not 5%. 

 Yes indeed, sorry, even my attempt to explain the rules got confused - I meant to say standard rate!

 

2 hours ago, Temp said:

I think the government is worried that if they zero rate it in BnQ we will all start buying insulation to make our houses warmer. We're much less likely to do that if we have to pay an installer to buy and fit it for us. 

 

Reading through the lines I can't conclude anything other than that the government is fundamentally pro-business and anti-consumer at the same time. God forbid the government should allow peons like us to own our own agency and make our houses warmer ourselves, especially when they think it doesn't even occur to people to buy value items instead of branded ones in the supermarket to save money. But then maybe they realised that supply chains are so wrecked that they couldn't handle people going out and buying loads of insulation at once, what chaos would that cause...it could be as bad as loo roll..

[ProDave]

3 hours ago, Temp said:

I think the government is worried that if they zero rate it in BnQ we will all start buying insulation to make our houses warmer. We're much less likely to do that if we have to pay an installer to buy and fit it for us. 

Yes it takes a genious to formulate a law that gives the headline "0% VAT on insulation" to give the impression that is what they want, but make it so that is only on fitted insulation so not many will actually bother.  

 

Or to put it another way "lets get some good headlines without it actually costing us anything or actually making much difference.

[joth]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

Yes it takes a genious to formulate a law that gives the headline "0% VAT on insulation" to give the impression that is what they want, but make it so that is only on fitted insulation so not many will actually bother.  

 

Or to put it another way "lets get some good headlines without it actually costing us anything or actually making much difference.

 

So true. It's a small mercy they didn't restrict 0% VAT on tampons to supply & install too.

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

If  was in charge:

 

0% on all insulation, diy or installed, starting tomorrow.*

All waste timber goes into a government supplied skip and goes for chipping. A charge only for being underweight (poor loading), otherwise free.

Zero vat on all rebuild  to discourage demo and starting again (mainly a London problem?).

No building on agricultural land suitable for crops.

Every new building must have a proportional area of solar on the roof, and be facing the right way. This can be included in EPC/SBEM. but not traded off.

All new developments get a proportion of units air tested at random by a well-paid and officious  government inspector, not the units chosen by the developer and their own preferred tester.

 

I thought I had more....they will come to me.

This would be a good time for 90% of the populace to accept these.

 

*This seems so obvious that there must be some reason why the establishment don't want it.

 

 

 

[SimonD]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

This seems so obvious that there must be some reason why the establishment don't want it.

 

There seems to be a phrase gaining popularity with MPs and ministers doing the rounds atm saying that something isn't consistent with 'conservative ideology' as a reason for not doing it. There is no other reason not to. I remember back in the old days when there were insulation grants getting a whole lorry load of loft insulation for our house for the princely sum of £98 all in and delivered, I think the cavity wall insulation cost us an eyewatering £400 or so.

[saveasteading]

18 hours ago, saveasteading said:

I thought I had more....they will come to me.

Remembered more.

No public or commercial premises to be heated to above 20C or cooled to below 26C.

This has been a law in Spain for some years, and I think recently applied in France.

Cruise ships have to go somewhere and public have to get off to look at the towns they visit.....that will reduce pointless travel while allowing freedom to 'explore'.

 

[saveasteading]

17 hours ago, SimonD said:

isn't consistent with 'conservative ideology'

It can't be that simple. Or do these parties resist zero VAT because it helps poorer people more than themselves.?

 

There was previously a delay of many years in controlling scrap recycling (all cash, no questions), until theft of railway copper got out of hand. I kind of think I suspect (he says cautiously)  why that was, but can't see how the same parties are involved in the insulation industry.

 

Do the energy businesses perhaps resist us insulating our homes? 

[Simplysimon]

18 hours ago, saveasteading said:

If  was in charge:

 

0% on all insulation, diy or installed, starting tomorrow.*

All waste timber goes into a government supplied skip and goes for chipping. A charge only for being underweight (poor loading), otherwise free.

Zero vat on all rebuild  to discourage demo and starting again (mainly a London problem?).

No building on agricultural land suitable for crops.

Every new building must have a proportional area of solar on the roof, and be facing the right way. This can be included in EPC/SBEM. but not traded off.

All new developments get a proportion of units air tested at random by a well-paid and officious  government inspector, not the units chosen by the developer and their own preferred tester.

 

I thought I had more....they will come to me.

This would be a good time for 90% of the populace to accept these.

 

*This seems so obvious that there must be some reason why the establishment don't want it.

 

 

 

+ all new builds must achieve passive levels of insulation, air tightness and levels of minimising overheating

[ProDave]

31 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Cruise ships have to go somewhere and public have to get off to look at the towns they visit.....that will reduce pointless travel while allowing freedom to 'explore'.

We get that at the moment, a few choose to explore the metropolis of Invergoerdon on foot and go and have lunch in the cafe at Morrisons rather than do a bus tour of Loch Ness.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

go and have lunch in the cafe at Morrisons

Meanwhile there is endless free (or included) food on board, perhaps better than even at Morrisons' cafe,  and hundreds will be indulging, and not getting off at all.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

to explore the metropolis of Invergordon on foot

What does Tripadvisor suggest as the ten best things to do in, or near,  Invergordon?

1. Cafe at Morrisons.

2. Visit to ProDave development with included tea and cake, and any problems solved.

3. Visit the only industrial estate with absolutely every car supplier and national builders' merchant on it (Inverness).

4?

[SteamyTea]

5 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

1. Cafe at Morrisons

I like their 'Big Daddy breakfast.

Well at the Penzance one. Probably the one furthest from 

5 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Invergordon

 

Not counting Gibraltar.

Edited May 22, 2022 by SteamyTea

[saveasteading]

Yours probably doesn't offer haggis slices in the breakfast. A big omission to any fry up.

[SteamyTea]

34 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Yours probably doesn't offer haggis slices in the breakfast. A big omission to any fry up.

We have Hogs Pudding. Haggis should be an extra with all meals.

[SimonD]

21 hours ago, saveasteading said:

It can't be that simple.

 

It is simplistic to suggest it's just conservative ideology (as from a political context, the current government isn't really functioning like conservatives), but unfortunately the problems we see ourselves faced with are down to ideology; it's ideology that's started the war in Ukraine; it's ideology that has caused the huge hike in energy prices (because energy price is market based thus price is affected by influences other than merely supply & demand; we're seeing a similar thing happening with food as so much of it is also market based and controlled by a small number of mega private companies.

 

Our current government are as blinded by over financialised, market based economics, mixed in with a scewed view of meritocracy and individualism, that allows them to blame each individual for their circumstances and are thus ideologically opposed to helping the disadvantaged. Add into this the effect the implementation of this ideology has had very much since the 1980s and you get the current convergence of businesses running their finances based on value extraction - high debt fueled by low interest rates that funds share buy back and generous dividend payments to shareholders while reducing/ceasing investment and R & D (since Steve Jobs diesd, even Apple has started to lean in this direction). Then you have the current government acting in exactly the same way with public funds - distributing vast amounds of public money to private entities that operate less efficiently and shovel the returns into the pockets of their shareholders rather than back to the public.

 

Perfect storm....because the inaction is down to willful blindness of these fundamental problems.

 

Goodness, that's not actually meant to sound like a monumental rant..... I'll get my coat....😁😁

[SteamyTea]

3 hours ago, SimonD said:

Goodness, that's not actually meant to sound like a monumental rant..... I'll get my coat.

Better get mine as well.

 

I think that there is now a serious problem with the state supporting private companies via the back door.

One of our regular customers claims about every benefit going, I don't have a problem with this, our benefits are not that generous. They spend about a third (of the discretionary spend) of it with us. We benefit from their benefits.

[Roger440]

4 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Better get mine as well.

 

I think that there is now a serious problem with the state supporting private companies via the back door.

 

 

This ^^^. If you just look at it as "money for chums", all of a sudden lots of stuff makes sense. Like 0% on Insulation only if its installed by an "authorised" firm. Who owns a lot of these firms? Chums, donors etc.

 

Or if you fancy a slightly less clear cut, tin foiliy theory, the WEF vision. Which is essentially the transfer of all wealth from the many to the few. Well underway as we speak. Once the recession is over, one guess to who the winners and losers will be.

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Roger440 said:

 

This ^^^. If you just look at it as "money for chums", all of a sudden lots of stuff makes sense. Like 0% on Insulation only if its installed by an "authorised" firm. Who owns a lot of these firms? Chums, donors etc.

 

Or if you fancy a slightly less clear cut, tin foiliy theory, the WEF vision. Which is essentially the transfer of all wealth from the many to the few. Well underway as we speak. Once the recession is over, one guess to who the winners and losers will be.

Have you read this:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Establishment:_And_How_They_Get_Away_with_It

 

I have. Kind of agreed with a lot of it, but was, by its very nature, overly political.

 

[Radian]

4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I have. Kind of agreed with a lot of it, but was, by its very nature, overly political.

 

You're mellow today 😁