Ecodan standby power consumption

[SteamyTea]

34 minutes ago, joth said:

 

I think you mean it consumed 313 Wh across the 24 hour period.

Well spotted. Would make more sense.

[Wil]

Ah the missing h. I apologise for my sit units.

 

It was apparently 313.31Wh if we’re being pedantic. And only applies to the iVT26. And I’m on economy 7 so it was less than 10p in standby for each unit for the day. 

 

But hopefully the information is actually useful to the thread.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Wil

[joth]

37 minutes ago, Wil said:

Ah the missing h. I apologise for my sit units.

 

It was apparently 313.31Wh if we’re being pedantic.

🙂

 

I don't care much about KwH vs kWh etc, but W vs Wh is a very important difference. It's like asking someone "how far is it to Scunthorpe?"  and getting the reply "yesterday I did 45 mph"

 

 

[Wil]

I know, I know, I’m even an electrical engineer so it’s just slightly upsetting to get caught getting it wrong.

 

I’m still waiting for ST to come back and tell me that’s more than he consumed in his one bed flat for the entire week… 😂

[LA3222]

53 minutes ago, joth said:

🙂

 

I don't care much about KwH vs kWh etc, but W vs Wh is a very important difference. It's like asking someone "how far is it to Scunthorpe?"  and getting the reply "yesterday I did 45 mph"

 

 

What brings you to the 'Industrial Garden Town'? Never really understood the appeal of being known as that, a bit like putting some hundreds and thousands on a turd🤷‍♂️

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, Wil said:

still waiting for ST to come back and tell me that’s more than he consumed in his one bed flat for the entire week

Don't have a 1 bed flat.

[JamesPa]

Sorry Im getting a bit lost on this important topic.  Is there a conclusion emerging yet? 

 

It looks like some measurements show relatively modest standby power consumption but I'm unclear whether the conclusion is that OP has a rogue machine, the measurement failed to take into account power factor so its not as much a problem as first thought, or (some) ecodans are particularly bad.

[SteamyTea]

15 hours ago, joth said:

I don't care much about KwH vs kWh etc, but W vs Wh is a very important difference.

Would be so much easier, clearer and sensible to use the proper derived units of joule for energy and watt for power.

 

I notice that Gridwatch uses MWh regardless of the time period.  So regardless of if you look at the 5 minute, hour, day, week, month or year time intervals, it states it in MWh.  Makes the 5 minute figures look horrendous. 

[joth]

8 hours ago, JamesPa said:

Sorry Im getting a bit lost on this important topic.  Is there a conclusion emerging yet? 

 

It looks like some measurements show relatively modest standby power consumption but I'm unclear whether the conclusion is that OP has a rogue machine, the measurement failed to take into account power factor so its not as much a problem as first thought, or (some) ecodans are particularly bad.

 

I think there's been 3 reports of ecodans.

 

@joth is seeing reliable 5.5W average standby load (266 Wh consumed in 48 hours). I have high confidence in this figure, as 2 different CT clamp arrangements agree (one dedicated on the ASHP, and another pair measuring grid import and household "indoor" consumption)

@LA3222 is seeing 200W continuous standby draw. There was a comment that "To be honest I haven't scrutinised the system too much." and "Not sure how accurate the readings are that I'm getting", so I'm not sure of the confidence here.

@Kenway is seeing 300W standby. They appear confident in that number, however I'm a little suspicous of the line chart showing kWh plotted against hours (is that kWh per hour, or extrapolated to per day, or something else? kWh is a quantity of stuff so this should be a stacked bar chart to make mathematical sense, not a line chart)

 

We certainly could use another few readings. I have a friend with one, I'll ask them.

[LA3222]

3 hours ago, joth said:

 

I think there's been 3 reports of ecodans.

 

@joth is seeing reliable 5.5W average standby load (266 Wh consumed in 48 hours). I have high confidence in this figure, as 2 different CT clamp arrangements agree (one dedicated on the ASHP, and another pair measuring grid import and household "indoor" consumption)

@LA3222 is seeing 200W continuous standby draw. There was a comment that "To be honest I haven't scrutinised the system too much." and "Not sure how accurate the readings are that I'm getting", so I'm not sure of the confidence here.

@Kenway is seeing 300W standby. They appear confident in that number, however I'm a little suspicous of the line chart showing kWh plotted against hours (is that kWh per hour, or extrapolated to per day, or something else? kWh is a quantity of stuff so this should be a stacked bar chart to make mathematical sense, not a line chart)

 

We certainly could use another few readings. I have a friend with one, I'll ask them.

I do intend to look further at this, I will the ct clamp off the incomer and stick it direct onto the ashp line to see what it says, just haven't had time to do it yet. My doubts stem from how the emporia vue works - all this business about true power use etc and potentially the sample rate. Its on my to do list.

[Kevm]

My 14kW monobloc Ecodan with MMSP records minute by minute data.  When it's in 'stop' mode it averages a bit under 0.4 Wh per minute.  I know from the way it's wired up that that's all the power being used by everything.  About 25W I think?

[ReedRichards]

0.4 Wh per minute = 60*0.4 =24 Wminutes per minute= 24 W .

[joth]

47 minutes ago, ReedRichards said:

0.4 Wh per minute = 60*0.4 =24 Wminutes per minute= 24 W .

 

Google is great for these unit conversions:

https://www.google.com/search?q=0.4+Wh+per+minute+in+watts = 24W (indoor + outdoor)

 

If you average it over a longer period (hours/days) it will give a more representative number.

 

FWIW my own measurement:

https://www.google.com/search?q=266+Wh+per+48+hours+in+watts = 5.5W (outdoor unit only)

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

Do we think that ~25W is a reasonable standby load?

Still about 70 quid a year.

 

[joth]

4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Do we think that ~25W is a reasonable standby load?

Still about 70 quid a year.

 

 

Personally I'd be unhappy with 25W continuous. But my hunch is @Kevm has only sampled periods when the compressor heater is "on" , and hasn't averaged it out over the 'off' periods.
As you see below, it draws about 25W peak

 

For me, over 2 days on standby (in April), it's only on for less that 25% of the time, hence my measured 5.5W average standby load.

 

 

5.5W I can live with. It's not ideal, I'd much rather have a (scroll) compressor that avoids the need for this by design. Ecodan has certainly dropped off the list I'd recommend to someone because of this.

For an occasional use property (holiday let, etc) this becomes even more stark.

 

 

[Kevm]

40 minutes ago, joth said:

 

Google is great for these unit conversions:

https://www.google.com/search?q=0.4+Wh+per+minute+in+watts = 24W (indoor + outdoor)

 

If you average it over a longer period (hours/days) it will give a more representative number.

 

FWIW my own measurement:

https://www.google.com/search?q=266+Wh+per+48+hours+in+watts = 5.5W (outdoor unit only)

 

 

 

 

It's very close to 25W no matter what period I choose.  

[rh2205]

We have an ASHP with a twin rotary compressor, do I just not understand compressors as I thought that was neither reciprocating nor scroll… we haven’t noticed any obvious standby use, but I’m going to do a more thorough recording over next few days as I try not worry myself with the finer details!

[HughF]

1 hour ago, rh2205 said:

We have an ASHP with a twin rotary compressor, do I just not understand compressors as I thought that was neither reciprocating nor scroll… we haven’t noticed any obvious standby use, but I’m going to do a more thorough recording over next few days as I try not worry myself with the finer details!

Reciprocating is a piston compressor, rotary is a rotary vane, scroll is an oscillating scroll

Edited April 29, 2022 by HughF

[HughF]

[Kevm]

6 hours ago, joth said:

 

Personally I'd be unhappy with 25W continuous. But my hunch is @Kevm has only sampled periods when the compressor heater is "on" , and hasn't averaged it out over the 'off' periods.
As you see below, it draws about 25W peak

 

For me, over 2 days on standby (in April), it's only on for less that 25% of the time, hence my measured 5.5W average standby load.

 

 

5.5W I can live with. It's not ideal, I'd much rather have a (scroll) compressor that avoids the need for this by design. Ecodan has certainly dropped off the list I'd recommend to someone because of this.

For an occasional use property (holiday let, etc) this becomes even more stark.

 

 

 You might be right; I don't have any data (yet) for long periods of off time.  My longest 'stop' samples are from my overnight 5 hour downtime.  

[GLPinxit]

On 29/04/2022 at 12:58, SteamyTea said:

Do we think that ~25W is a reasonable standby load?

Still about 70 quid a year.

 

Too right- I've just bought a new air pump for my sewage treatment plant as the old one uses 85 Watts continuously and the new one is just 50 so it will pay for itself in two years. 

[JamesPa]

Has anybody got any further info on this.  I had pretty much settled on the 11.2kW ecodan for my installation but I'm now really not sure and the thread isn't yet conclusive.  There doesn't seem to be any reliable way to get at the information other than from the experience of others.  

 

Has anybody on here got any inside influence on the industry; standby consumption is clearly a parameter which should be declared, or as a minimum included in the declared (S)COP otherwise the manufacturers with high consumption are being allowed to get away with a serious misrepresentation.   

[SteamyTea]

30 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

Has anybody on here got any inside influence on the industry

I asked my contact at the installer training centre.  They knew nothing about it, had never tested and did not seem interested.

I did email Vilnis Vesma about it.  He seemed interested, but again, have not heard anything since.

The one person I know that had an Ecodan has moved, so can't go and test theirs.

All a bit frustrating not knowing whether it is a real problem or a W or Wh problem.

[dpmiller]

standby and preheat consumption should be listed in the TUV document?

[joth]

I asked a friend with the 11kW ecodan. Their house draws less than 100W average overnight and they can account for majority of that elsewhere, so certainly not seeing a high demand from the ecodan.