New build plans - opinions, suggestions and feedback welcomed!

[h18ant]

Hi there,

 

Long time lurker on the forums but I would really value your view on our newbuild plans.

 

We are aiming to knock down an existing 1.5 storey cottage and replace it with a 4 bed cottage style new build. The garden stretches out infront of the house and is South facing, hence the doors in the front of the house to maximise light but also keep the garden nicely accessible.

 

We have asked our architect to make it as open plan as possible as we have 4 kids and the living space is really important to us. Also, the ability to shut ourselves away in a snug or similar would be handy. It will be in the country side so access to the bootroom/utility for all of the mucky boots etc is key. Our cars will also be parked at the back of the house so access needs to nice and easy.

 

You will also note that the plan is for the stairs to wrap around a fireplace to form a central feature (kind of thing).

 

There will also be a garage behind the house with a study/office above it.

 

Generally we are happy so far but can't get the master bedroom to work for us, we have a super kingsize bed so think we will need to move it to the one side of the bedroom as that will work better. As long as we have a view out into the garden from bed that is fine! We would like the en suite to be decent size and squeeze a wardrobe in somehow if we can, as opposed to standing furniture.

 

I would very much welcome your thoughts and feedback/suggestions on layout, I would be most grateful.

 

I have attached an initial rough sketch, the existing plans and proposed plans.

 

Ant

 

[Iceverge]

Hi @h18ant,

 

Welcome welcome. 

 

It looks a lovely project, I like the site, especially the trees. 

 

Could you possibly upload the plans in a higher resolution and note North on the plans please. 

 

Finding it tricky to view them. 

 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, h18ant said:

...

I would very much welcome your thoughts and feedback/suggestions on layout, I would be most grateful.

...

 

Help us to help you. 

Give us a design brief: for example you mention 4 children, a snug, mud, countryside.  But what else do you want out of a house?  What was the design brief you gave the architect?

If you give us that, then commenters can evaluate the plan in the light of your brief.

[PeterW]

Welcome  - 4 kids, so assuming that 2 are sharing ..??

 

Master could steal some space out of bed 2 and wardrobes would be walk in behind the head of the bed - still leaves lots of space. Also, put a door on the en-suite… even a sliding one !!! 

 

 

[h18ant]

14 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Welcome  - 4 kids, so assuming that 2 are sharing ..??

 

Master could steal some space out of bed 2 and wardrobes would be walk in behind the head of the bed - still leaves lots of space. Also, put a door on the en-suite… even a sliding one !!! 

 

 

Hi, yes, 2 will need to share we think as going for a 5 bed seems to be pushing it as the site is in an AONB and we have been advised that if we go any bigger in m2 or number of beds it may cause us issues when applying for planning. In an ideal world, we would like 5 beds to be honest, we are still pondering that one!

 

Yes, door on the en-suite for sure! Good advice!

[h18ant]

33 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

Hi @h18ant,

 

Welcome welcome. 

 

It looks a lovely project, I like the site, especially the trees. 

 

Could you possibly upload the plans in a higher resolution and note North on the plans please. 

 

Finding it tricky to view them. 

 

 

 

Thanks, yes, I will aim to reload them and note North, thanks for your help.

[h18ant]

52 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Help us to help you. 

Give us a design brief: for example you mention 4 children, a snug, mud, countryside.  But what else do you want out of a house?  What was the design brief you gave the architect?

If you give us that, then commenters can evaluate the plan in the light of your brief.

Will do, I'll aim to add more detail from the brief, thank you for your help.

 

Initial brief below:-

 

Initial brief as per site meeting

 

Existing site is situated in AONB

 

Demolition of existing derelict dwelling.

 

Proposed replacement family house (including 5 bedrooms and study over garage) with open plan living and suitable environment for autistic son, whilst also permitting privacy. Good access to garden and external areas from the house.

 

Replacement dwelling to be sighted at narrow/north end of site. Possible use of existing excavated basement of current building within proposals for storage purposes.

 

Existing materials from the current building to be reused where possible (existing bricks noted to be of good quality).

 

Proposed double bay garage with rear storage if possible and with room above to be used as a study.

 

Proposals to incorporate a secure small courtyard between garage and dwelling for easy/safe loading and unloading of cars.

 

What we want to get out of the house

 

Our plan is for this to be our forever home.

 

It needs to be future proof for our autistic son’s requirements - easy access, safe areas and open plan to enable us to keep an eye on him as much as possible, whilst also providing the ability for us to have privacy when we would all like it.

 

Needs to feel like the house and garden are one, needs to have good flow so we can all exist together with as much space as possible (e.g. we are not fond of separate dining rooms and formal lounges etc). That said, we still want a lounge please that can be private/shut off!

 

Most of our time is likely to be spent in the kitchen/day room type area so it has to be highly functional.

We would like to have a room above the garage to be used as a study/home office - as opposed to having it in the house.

Linked to the above and us not having a study in the house, we would like to be aiming for 5 bedrooms ideally as we really do want all of the kids to have seperate rooms, 4 a s a minimum

Altered driveway to satisfy Highways and improve access.

 

Acoustic/boundary fencing to be installed along west and south boundary for enhanced privacy and security.

Fencing - we would like to have acoustic fencing on the road side boundary and use what we can to mitigate the road noise

Other items:-

Discuss use of basement, what is the art of the possible?

Utility/boot room is really important to us and need to have access to the rear courtyard/car area

The ability to make the downstairs open plan and closed plan by using doors/double doors or any other means is important to us

We want the house to be as low carbon/environmentally friendly as possible

Build method can be timber frame or traditional, we are not precious about this at this stage

Triple glazing?

Underfloor heating on ground floors and potentially 1st floor (maybe radiators are better), basement (if we have one) will need heating also.

Air source heat pump/can this be dual purpose and offer air con?

Pv panels?

Heat recovery system?

Likely that rear of house will be used for secure/small courtyard, cars and garage, dirty boots in and out etc

 

The front of the house will be where we think we will sit outside (due to South facing), kids/garden and rear yard/drive will need to be visible, and the kitchen needs to overlook both front and rear if possible. Would like the master bedroom to overlook the garden so we can enjoy that view.

 

Lounge - we would like a fireplace/woodburner if possible

 

Master bedroom - decent ensuite and wardrobe/storage

 

All bedrooms - some sort of storage in each as opposed to filling the rooms with wardrobes when we move in!

 

We like the idea of some brick/exposed walls in the house to add character and variety

 

Would like to avoid narrow bedrooms due to low ridge and dormer windows high up the walls

 

Kitchen - would like a decent size island in it with stools along it, space somewhere for a decent size table and chairs also, the kitchen is likely to be the heart of the house so it has to be highly functional for us as a family.

 

Pantry area - my wife is a keen baker and would like a separate storage area for her baking items and upright fridge and freezer. A room/space off the kitchen would be ideal somehow. It doesn’t need to be part of the utility/boot room unless it works better. 

 

Basement is probably the loft effectively in this house but we are concerned about damp and mold etc - we are happy to include it but do not want to use up valuable m2 living space on the floors above though vs planning approval

 

The hall needs to not feel too enclosed if possible, gallery style landing is nice, not fussed on vaulted ceilings etc though as it eats up precious space.

 

Utility needs to have access from the rear/side of the property to help us get in and out of cars easily but safely.

 

Secure gates at front of property, tall and solid. The whole property has to be secure for our son.

Edited February 6, 2022 by h18ant

[h18ant]

Here are some higher res versions of the plans. Topographical version also showing North.

 

North is literally at the top of the page. So the garden is South facing as will be the front of the house.

 

 

topo.pdf Garage. proposed plans elevations and sections.pdf Existing plans and elevations.pdf Proposed plans and elevations.pdf

floor plans with measurements.pdf

Edited February 6, 2022 by h18ant

[ProDave]

It looks a nice site, and the floorplan layout is not bad, but the elevations give the impression of a design made to look quaint, but with no thought given to cost and complexity of build.  I fear the present design is going to work out difficult and expensive to build while giving no obvious benefit over a simpler design other than looking quaint.

[CharlieKLP]

58 minutes ago, ProDave said:

It looks a nice site, and the floorplan layout is not bad, but the elevations give the impression of a design made to look quaint, but with no thought given to cost and complexity of build.  I fear the present design is going to work out difficult and expensive to build while giving no obvious benefit over a simpler design other than looking quaint.

I’d agree there. Looks lovely but have you found a builder who can create a barrel roof? Have you seen how much chimneys cost? Is a ‘non-rightangled’ room the best thing for a utility or whatever that room is. How are you going to fit the units. 
 

My main concern is… is a big open plan house the best thing for someone with autistic needs? You will know better than me of course, and how noisy your family is. 

[Wumpus]

It does look like a great site, I’m sure what you have will work well.

 

A few random thoughts.

Im not sure your utility is doing what you want as a boot room. Could it be designed with an outside door so you have more space for a mud room/airlock? If I understand what you want, it might be possible to out in a bench to sit on when putting on boots etc., but I don’t see enough space in the plans.

 

As you have 2 kids sharing a bedroom, could bed 3 or 4 be smaller and larger to give the 2 sharing more space? I would show single beds in the plan to be clear about that space rather than a double bed as shown. 
 

I don’t see the fitted bedroom storage you wanted, which is ok but it takes space and you won’t have a lot of height so I would be sure it works.

 

I would allow a bit more space in the en suite for bed 1, 1m wide will just about work but will feel a bit tight and you have space to do more.

 

Would it be possible to design your room over the garage so it could also or later be a bedroom with en suite shower, either for guests with a sofa bed, or for one of your kids as they get older and want some independence?

 

Hope that helps

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, h18ant said:

Hi, yes, 2 will need to share we think as going for a 5 bed seems to be pushing it as the site is in an AONB and we have been advised that if we go any bigger in m2 or number of beds it may cause us issues when applying for planning. In an ideal world, we would like 5 beds to be honest, we are still pondering that one!

 

Yes, door on the en-suite for sure! Good advice!

you don't mention budget anywhere (although I have to admit I did skim read some of the posts!) but I'm surprised that you can't go bigger to create the space that you need. if planning are adamant about the size then have you considered a basement? 

 

also, have you potentially looked at going down the Paragraph 79 route? I recall reading a few threads on here about Paragraph 79 self-builds. here's one:

 

 

seems like a great way to get a house you want in an AONB but I'm guessing it comes with a price tag to reflect. that's why I was asking about your budget.

 

just seems a shame to build a 4-bed forever home when you really want/need a 5 bed and may end up having to move if you do decide you need more bedrooms.

[h18ant]

5 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

you don't mention budget anywhere (although I have to admit I did skim read some of the posts!) but I'm surprised that you can't go bigger to create the space that you need. if planning are adamant about the size then have you considered a basement? 

 

also, have you potentially looked at going down the Paragraph 79 route? I recall reading a few threads on here about Paragraph 79 self-builds. here's one:

 

 

seems like a great way to get a house you want in an AONB but I'm guessing it comes with a price tag to reflect. that's why I was asking about your budget.

 

just seems a shame to build a 4-bed forever home when you really want/need a 5 bed and may end up having to move if you do decide you need more bedrooms.

Thanks, I'll have a read of this!

 

There is a basement that is under the existing house so we will aim to utilise that and we will have options for a 5th bedroom if we need it.

 

We clearly need to make sure we have exhausted the options on 5 bed. Thanks for your thoughts and comments.

[h18ant]

26 minutes ago, Wumpus said:

It does look like a great site, I’m sure what you have will work well.

 

A few random thoughts.

Im not sure your utility is doing what you want as a boot room. Could it be designed with an outside door so you have more space for a mud room/airlock? If I understand what you want, it might be possible to out in a bench to sit on when putting on boots etc., but I don’t see enough space in the plans.

 

As you have 2 kids sharing a bedroom, could bed 3 or 4 be smaller and larger to give the 2 sharing more space? I would show single beds in the plan to be clear about that space rather than a double bed as shown. 
 

I don’t see the fitted bedroom storage you wanted, which is ok but it takes space and you won’t have a lot of height so I would be sure it works.

 

I would allow a bit more space in the en suite for bed 1, 1m wide will just about work but will feel a bit tight and you have space to do more.

 

Would it be possible to design your room over the garage so it could also or later be a bedroom with en suite shower, either for guests with a sofa bed, or for one of your kids as they get older and want some independence?

 

Hope that helps

Thanks, very helpful. 

 

Utility room will have a bench etc in it, the units are just shown for a indication at this stage. It needs reworking for sure...

 

En suite - yes, we might be able to take a bit of space from the bedroom behind it and make it a bit bigger, introducing some kind of wardrobe storage too.

 

Garage room - all good points too, thank you!

[h18ant]

33 minutes ago, CharlieKLP said:

I’d agree there. Looks lovely but have you found a builder who can create a barrel roof? Have you seen how much chimneys cost? Is a ‘non-rightangled’ room the best thing for a utility or whatever that room is. How are you going to fit the units. 
 

My main concern is… is a big open plan house the best thing for someone with autistic needs? You will know better than me of course, and how noisy your family is. 

Thanks,

 

Yes, we have a builder to do the barrel roof, chimneys may well be removed tbh. Utility room needs a bit of a rework for sure!

 

Open plan for our son will be great as he likes to be part of things and is very sociable, so should work well. I understand the point you have raised though for sure.

[h18ant]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

It looks a nice site, and the floorplan layout is not bad, but the elevations give the impression of a design made to look quaint, but with no thought given to cost and complexity of build.  I fear the present design is going to work out difficult and expensive to build while giving no obvious benefit over a simpler design other than looking quaint.

Many thanks, I appreciate your feedback.

[Iceverge]

Its a pretty design. 

 

It might be quite expensive to build it to a high standard with the amount of fiddly corners etc.  The roof is especially complex. Have you costed this to be built to a thermal bridge free standard.

 

Looking at it I would say there won’t be much change out of £60k to do the roof alone. Perhaps budget isn’t such an issue. 

 

I would encourage you to get a passivhaus designer to put it through PHPP before you commit to the design, You don’t need to reach passivhaus but it will accurately measure your levels of energy use and overheating. With electricity heading for 30c a unit you need to be able to predict your energy use accurately. SAP is notoriously inaccurate for well build houses. 

 

I do like the barreled roof. A clever use of space if constrained with ridge height. Nothing overly complex about them unless they have many oblique intersections with other surfaces............

 

ASHP can be used for cooling. Designing out overheating through appropriate glazing, shading and the use of high decrement delay materials is better. Many architects are still in the oil era mentality of building energy and comfort. 

Is your lifestyle one that is compatible with a logburner? Maybe you’re a forester or a chippy with lots of spare offcuts to come home with every day. Perhaps you like taking walks and collecting sticks from the roadside like my Granny used to, or maybe you derive solace from a weekend spent splitting and stacking wood. 

 

If so and you can live with the interior and local pollution (nothing eco friendly about burning wood) you cause then go for it. Beware it’s very very difficult to get an airtight house (<1ACH) with a stove. In my 6 years constantly researching low energy buildings I have only come across 1 example. 

 

Otherwise save yourself £5k and buy a nice fishtank to look at. In a well built house you won’t miss the lump of radiant heat the we crave in drafty old buildings. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

Philistine comments from me , which feel free to ignore.

 

This is rather a 'sampler' of what can be done to resemble various rural styles and 'arts and crafts'..

 

The materials and detailing are important if it is going to have the charm that is implied.

 

Barrel roof metal cladding?  Expensive and tricky. 

Barrel roof: a tricky joint to the other materials, and the dormer...this will rely on several boxes of silicone, I'm afraid

Barrel roof will need an overhang to allow gutters.

'Large flat rooflight'. inset to hold rainwater. in the place that a ridge beam should be.

Lots of joints and seals to build and maintain...high maintenance.

Chimneys...good luck finding the bricklayer who is interested.

 

So many corners and interfaces and not many plane surfaces.   

Add £500/m2  for the 'architecture'  to a more standard indicative cost for your area?

What is that for you ? £200,000?

 

But it is certainly different so bravo, if the budget works.

Do please have a highly skilled builder look at it and tell you what are the worries and costs.

There are issues here which I would (as a contractor) see as challenging and happy to try out, but only at your expense and risk.

It will also be slow.

 

 

[thefoxesmaltings]

21 hours ago, h18ant said:

Thanks, I'll have a read of this!

 

There is a basement that is under the existing house so we will aim to utilise that and we will have options for a 5th bedroom if we need it.

 

We clearly need to make sure we have exhausted the options on 5 bed. Thanks for your thoughts and comments.

 

If I can help in any way offering advice on securing planning for Paragraph 79 (now 80), do let me know. That's our planned build that @Thorfun shared, also in an AONB.

I will say that no two Paragraph 80 builds are the same, and as such, each will come with their own unique challenges and approaches. Although, there are some principles which remain the same (passivhaus, architecturally exceptional etc al).

However, as you are going down the 'knock down and replace' route, I think you're already one step ahead as the 'principle for a dwelling need' is already met due to there being a pre-existing house. Therefore, I don't think you'd need to apply under Paragraph 80.

Have you already secured planning or gone for pre-app advice? It should be relatively straightforward to put something there with a similar size footprint, which matches the local vernacular and buildings in the area. I think the challenge will come if you want to do something completely radical or unique - this, however, also comes with a radical price-tag!

[h18ant]

Thanks for the offer, I appreciate it.

 

We haven't gone for planning yet but the new house is about twice the size of the existing one, which may prove a challenge possibly we think.

 

 

 

Quote

If I can help in any way offering advice on securing planning for Paragraph 79 (now 80), do let me know. That's our planned build that @Thorfun shared, also in an AONB.

I will say that no two Paragraph 80 builds are the same, and as such, each will come with their own unique challenges and approaches. Although, there are some principles which remain the same (passivhaus, architecturally exceptional etc al).

However, as you are going down the 'knock down and replace' route, I think you're already one step ahead as the 'principle for a dwelling need' is already met due to there being a pre-existing house. Therefore, I don't think you'd need to apply under Paragraph 80.

Have you already secured planning or gone for pre-app advice? It should be relatively straightforward to put something there with a similar size footprint, which matches the local vernacular and buildings in the area. I think the challenge will come if you want to do something completely radical or unique - this, however, also comes with a radical price-tag!

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by h18ant

[Thorfun]

5 minutes ago, h18ant said:

We haven't gone for planning yet but the new house is about twice the size of the existing one, which may prove a challenge possibly we think.

we went through this exactly.....

 

 

planning said that the new building was disproportionate to the existing dwelling (a bungalow). when we pointed out that we could under permitted development extend out the back along the entire length of the building and then also convert the loft space to create even more space it soon became apparent that the new house was not actually disproportionate and the plans got approved.

 

I would suggest putting in the size of house that you would like (and can afford) and then argue when/if planning say it's too big. much better to do that than to go in with what someone thinks they might agree to only to then find out you could've got more!

[thefoxesmaltings]

3 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

I would suggest putting in the size of house that you would like (and can afford) and then argue when/if planning say it's too big. much better to do that than to go in with what someone thinks they might agree to only to then find out you could've got more!

 

I second this. It's much easier to 'come down' in size than to keep pushing for more or 'what you could have got'.

Also, work with your architect who has (hopefully) got experience of the local planning policies, and knows how the local authority feels with regards to new dwellings. A pre-app may well be the route to take with this. Your architect should be able to advise.

[h18ant]

thanks for your help, we have employed a planning consultant who knows the local planning policies well etc and he is guiding us alongside the architect...

 

[Mr Punter]

I just have a few small points:

 

I am not sure about the stairs rising out of the kitchen/living area.  Even if this is acceptable from a safety fire perspective it is not ideal where the only option in the event of a fire is to jump out of a first floor window.

 

The curved stair and enclosure looks nice on plan but you would need a specially fabricated staircase.  It is also very difficult to build a curved wall as shown.  I often see architects do this and it normally gets scrubbed.

 

Lose the chimneys.  They will cost a fortune and will never be used.

 

With the barrel roof it may work well if you wrap the walls in the same material down to the ground, leaving just the gables in the brick / render.  The pantry bit messes this all up and maybe better incorporated into the main plan rather than a wedge scabbed on the end.

 

It looks like there is a big tree in the garage.  There are lots of threads on here regarding trees.  Once you have planning, their protection can be conditioned so it is sometimes more pragmatic to clear any that prevent viable development before consulting the planners.

[AliG]

Welcome @h18ant

 

Having just commented on another design where people feel the architect did a poor job, you certainly have what looks like a very nice design here. If you are happy with costs to build the roof I won't comment further.

 

As others have said, my main concern, having read your brief, is that this is a much smaller house than you planned for. I too would go along with the start bigger and see what planning says route.

 

Thoughts/suggestions, without making the house larger.

 

1. The rear hall is just wasting space and wouldn't actually work as a boot room. I would merge it into the utility room and make it dual purpose.

 

2. Two kids sharing a bedroom will need/deserve a larger bedroom and need a fitted wardrobe. In the current design I would maybe steal 0.5m from bed 4 and add it to bed 3.

 

3. There is room for fitted wardrobes in the bedrooms if you want, just needs shown on the plans.

 

4. Is there a reason for the skylights in the bedrooms? Including the extra costs on the roof they will cost the best part of £4k each and frankly the light would just be annoying above a bed. We have a double height bedroom and the light from the high windows is annoying in summer. A Velux on the half landing may work better than the skylight over the landing.

 

5. There is room for a wardrobe in you bedroom if you put the bed on the west side and the wardrobe on the opposite side. I would do this and make the en suite maybe 1,4m wide. I f you wanted a dressing room I would put it between the bed and the en suite and you would need to make that wing of the house around 1m deeper, making the dressing room around 1.4m wide and the bedroom 3.5m long.

 

6. Im just not sure about the downstairs layout. The pantry is off the sitting area, the table is in between the door and stairs and there is large area which may end up unused space. It may just be how the furniture is currently shown. A simple change would be to put the table where the two chairs are shown and then make the sitting area to the east side of the door with a space through the middle between the front door and stairs. I would have the bottom of the staircase at the other side, closer to the kitchen and utility room, this would free up more space for furniture in the lounge area on the east side of the room. Presumably there should be a cupboard under the stairs?

 

7. I would do away with the log burner. Expensive and even more so with the chimney in the middle of the roof, plus it isn't even a focal point, just stuck in the middle of the stairs. You'd have to have a flue or chimney up the centre of the staircase.

 

If you could make the house a little deeper it would free up a lot of useful space, 0.5-1m to the front of the kitchen/master bedroom and to the rear of bed 3/sitting room which is quite small. This would keep the same basic design, but gain you another 10-15sq metres.