LilttleVoice Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 (edited) Hello all We've been researching windows for months, and now we're getting close to decision-making time, our heads are spinning. Up until now we've been set on speccing 3G alu-clad windows and doors, but are now wondering whether to consider 3G timber. I think we were swayed slightly by the promise of alu-clad being lower maintenance, and preferring the warmer wood frames inside. But why not good quality timber, if it's slightly less expensive? What's important to us is thermal performance, functionality/quality, and aesthetics – clean, contemporary lines. The question is, roughly what's the uplift in cost of alu-clad compared to timber? So far we've had a couple of quotes for alu-clad (including 4 sets of 3.7m sliding doors) coming in around 35-38k. We're actually taking out one of the sliders for practical reasons (replacing with a smaller picture window), and may also swap another for French doors, which will shave a fair bit off those quotes. Interested to hear any expert insight! Many thanks LV Edited February 4, 2022 by LilttleVoice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 We went 3G wood. Eucalyptus, factory finished. Main reason they are made about 3 miles from the house. They came measured, manufactured and installed. So basically any issues were down to them to sort out. Happy with the results. But wasn't cheap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 looking for a no maintenance house, so no fascias/soffits, silicone self coloured render, fibre cement cladding and windows alu clad. i didn't want to paint everthing every 5 or so years 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 (edited) No issue with timber windows, no reason why a softwood (pine/spruce) cannot be used but a harder timber makes more sense, however. Maintenance is paramount, fail to maintain them and it will bite you in the ***e. Different finishes will have different timescale, lighter lacquers will have different timescales from darker lacquers. Painted will have a longer timescale but will still need maintenance. All windows need maintenance. If you actually look at your warranty guidelines (everyone), you can technically be voiding your warranty if you don't maintain yearly. Some manufacturers/suppliers are not that fussed about it but others are sticklers. Alu clad for example should have the aluminium washed down (just water) once a year. As for the uplift, it's not much to be honest, it's about 5%. As for the choice, alu clad everyday of the week - oak (personal preference) if you can afford too. Edited February 4, 2022 by craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyshouse Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 If it is for yourselves, no question go for Ali clad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 (edited) Just moved out of our previous house, built in 1830, still has most of the original timber framed windows. If they are painted correctly no issues. The replacement windows we installed in 2012, are still good, no need for paint for quite a few years yet. If the windows are factory finished and are good quality windows, see no reason why you should not see 20 years, without the need to repaint. And if fashion's change you can change the colour easily. Edited February 4, 2022 by JohnMo Missing word 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilttleVoice Posted February 6, 2022 Author Share Posted February 6, 2022 Thanks so much for your replies. @craig, really valuable insight as to difference in cost and maintenance considerations, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyshouse Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 I am hoping for a couple of hundred years out of my Ali clad ones ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 On 04/02/2022 at 22:24, craig said: No issue with timber windows What is the advantage in covering timber frames with aluminium? Never really understood this, and I understand composites quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 10 hours ago, tonyshouse said: I am hoping for a couple of hundred years out of my Ali clad ones ? You might hope for that, but you will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) Look & maintenance. You can give a timber window a completely different look by appling alu cladding. External maintenance is reduced to pretty much zero. The window is essentially the exact same as timber. Edited February 7, 2022 by craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 On 04/02/2022 at 12:27, LilttleVoice said: ... but are now wondering whether to consider 3G timber. ... We have aluminium clad windows where there's greater exposure to wind and rain (North, West and East). The 4 meter slider and two picture windows (2m square) that sit under cover in our Winter Garden (which is open to the elements) are plain wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 39 minutes ago, craig said: Look & maintenance. You can give a timber window a completely different look by appling alu cladding. Why not just aluminium frames then. They can be foam filled to improve thermal performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Why not just aluminium frames then. They can be foam filled to improve thermal performance. Most want timber internally and not aluminium. There's also the mindset of cold, timber gives a warmer feeling but also a better Uf value generally & a better overall Uw without having to add to a standard profile to obtain a better Uf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyshouse Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 3g deffo, Ali clad favourite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 3 hours ago, craig said: Most want timber internally and not aluminium Ah, good reason. Though my car windows don't bother me that they have steel and moulded plastic, and I spend a lot more time looking out of them. And they are heated, open fully electrically, and have wipers to get rid rain, and washers to get rid of dirt. Funny how unimportant we think some things are, and how important other things are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 11 hours ago, SteamyTea said: Why not just aluminium frames then. They can be foam filled to improve thermal performance. Don't believe everything that you are told regarding foam filled aluminium frames, our Comar 9pi and 5pi advanced framing supposedly had foam in the inner core but when I noticed the absence of foam from within one of the trickle vent slots and examined it for myself I was brushed off with the excuse that maybe "the foam had fallen out during transportation" but still nothing was done to rectify the problem, a possibility yes, but now I am doubting whether any or some of the other frame sections have missing insulation foam. Not a good feeling to have I can tell you especially when the U-values of the windows and doors are so critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makeitstop Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 11 hours ago, tonyshouse said: 3g deffo, Ali clad favourite I must admit, the idea is lovely, but the diff in moving a 3g slider to 2g is considerable. If it was for a slider I was looking to use frequently, the 3g feel would do my nut in. I am basing that on the experience of an internorm lift and slide at a trade show. It was approx 3.5 metre wide and was not at all funny to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Very happy with my Rationel Alu clad timber 3G windows. I wanted no maintenance, no regular re painting of windows. I also like the very clean simple profile of the Rationel units. I do admit a 3G tilt and slide unit is a little heavy, but it does slide nicely, but your granny might not have the strength to get it moving. Do look at samples before buying. One make of "Alu clad" timber windows I saw fitted into a new house I was wiring struck me as very poor, a thin sheet of aluminium stuck to the outside of a timber window with no gap. A far cry from the well designed system Rationel use with an air gap between the frame and the alu cladding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 I'm looking at windows at the moment. Timber does need maintenance, hence aliclad, but a local (recommended) supplier makes them with an oven paint finish. aliclad used to be very expensive so I assume has come down if you are all so pleased with it. Rationel told me they had passed it to their supplier but ..silence. Other companies make ali-clad too but don't seem responsive either. I have looked at and admired Rationel for years (and stroked it at exhibitions) but the price was horrendous. As above....weatherproof and coloured ali outside, lovely wood inside. Aluminium has a substantial thermal break, and lots of cells in the cross section...the published u values are good. Have found some high quality nearby at last. My rule of thumb for a quick estimate used to be (custom-made and fitted) upvc £350/m2, aluminium £400/m2 , wood £450/m2, aliclad wood, £600/m2. Any updates on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 @saveasteading if you don't know the local distributor for Rationel is ADW in Aberdeen, they are very approachable, send your window schedules to them for a quote. Window pricing does seem to be a lottery but when I priced ours I sent the schedules to 5 quality window suppliers and Rationel came back the cheapest so ot was a simple decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Makeitstop said: It was approx 3.5 metre wide and was not at all funny to move. That's weird, the sliding panel would have been 1750 width and you should be able to move that with 1 finger (any lift and slide system). What they might have had on the door is the soft closer/opener, which does require a tiny bit of inertia to overcome it. Edited February 8, 2022 by craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, craig said: That's weird, the sliding panel would have been 1750 width and you should be able to move that with 1 finger (and lift and slide system). What they might have had on the door is the soft closer/opener, which does require a tiny bit of inertia to overcome it. At build it live, some of the sliders would not move because the stand floors were flexing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 minute ago, markc said: At build it live, some of the sliders would not move because the stand floors were flexing. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makeitstop Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, markc said: At build it live, some of the sliders would not move because the stand floors were flexing. You'd think the suppliers would give consideration to that and make an adjustment to the product they decide to display in that case. Hardly a great advert for them to have something on show that doesn't function nearly as well as a potential buyer might expect. These are not low priced products after all, and consumers should be able to gauge how the display product might work for them in their own spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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