1st fix without closing down our options

[SimonD]

I'm currently looking to get the electrician in soon to do the 1st fix electrics but we're really struggling with the lighting design so don't quite know exactly what we want. We have a vague idea but some areas like the huge vaulted curved ceilings, we could actually do with experimenting with various lighting arrangements first. Can anyone recommend a strategy to get the 1st fix largely done that leaves flexibility for finalising lighting design, but won't cause too much frustration with the sparky?

 

Many thanks.

[nod]

If you are paying on a day rate He will be happy to help you design and move lights around 

If hes on a price He will expect a drawing 

and be able to crack on 

[markc]

+1,  to Thea over.

also if you ask for help in design and wanting a fixed price to do it, the sparky will give recommendations to make it easier, not necessarily better.

might be worth getting someone in for a couple of days on a day rate with a view to input and trying some fittings etc

Edited January 27, 2022 by markc

[markc]

Was supposed to say “the above” not Thea over! Stupid predictive text.

[JohnMo]

Huge and bulb replacement, means scaffold to do it safely.  Think carefully how you will maintain once furniture is in place.  Low level up/down lights work well and are maintainable.

[ProDave]

As long as the electrician is doing "loop at switch" wiring, which is pretty normal these days, then all you need to decide right now is how many light circuits in each room, and then in your vaulted ceiling room just leave a long length of the switched light feed cable(s) ready to be positioned before the ceiling covering goes on, once you have decided what you want.

 

Decision time is just before plasterboard or other ceiling covering goes on.

[Russell griffiths]

44 minutes ago, ProDave said:

As long as the electrician is doing "loop at switch" wiring, which is pretty normal these days, then all you need to decide right now is how many light circuits in each room, and then in your vaulted ceiling room just leave a long length of the switched light feed cable(s) ready to be positioned before the ceiling covering goes on, once you have decided what you want.

 

Decision time is just before plasterboard or other ceiling covering goes on.

We have done this method, we have 5-10m of cable coiled up hanging from a nail just waiting for 100% decision on light placement, then clip along batten and cut to length. 

Just means you might waste a couple of metres of cable but it’s cheap. 

[cwr]

2 hours ago, SimonD said:

I'm currently looking to get the electrician in soon to do the 1st fix electrics but we're really struggling with the lighting design so don't quite know exactly what we want. We have a vague idea but some areas like the huge vaulted curved ceilings, we could actually do with experimenting with various lighting arrangements first. Can anyone recommend a strategy to get the 1st fix largely done that leaves flexibility for finalising lighting design, but won't cause too much frustration with the sparky?

 

Many thanks.

Exactly the same predicament we're in right now, electrician starts on Monday, boarding 2 weeks later. Going for recessed spots in our vaulted ceiling (anyone got some nice pics of what they've done?) and will ask electricians to runs wires in straight lines between them to buy us a couple of weeks in case we change our mind on how many to go in, albeit committed to only having them in front of where the wires are.

Edited January 27, 2022 by cwr

[Russell griffiths]

 

 

Cables run but location to be confirmed. 

Probably about 10 minutes before the ceiling goes up. ??‍♂️

 

Excuse the crappy pic. 

Phone really didn’t like those lights. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Russell griffiths

[Nickfromwales]

9 hours ago, SimonD said:

I'm currently looking to get the electrician in soon to do the 1st fix electrics but we're really struggling with the lighting design so don't quite know exactly what we want. We have a vague idea but some areas like the huge vaulted curved ceilings, we could actually do with experimenting with various lighting arrangements first. Can anyone recommend a strategy to get the 1st fix largely done that leaves flexibility for finalising lighting design, but won't cause too much frustration with the sparky?

 

Many thanks.

I'm doing the lighting design for one of my current clients builds, which also has a tall curved ceiling. I've suggested recessed wall uplighters to wash the ceiling area with enough upward light to allow sufficient ambient light to make its way down lower in the room, with the idea being to have light but not to see the source ( or as near as damnit ).

No pics of that one yet, sorry, but here are some of the same I installed on another project.

  

Edited January 27, 2022 by Nickfromwales

[Nickfromwales]

Edited January 27, 2022 by Nickfromwales

[Bramco]

10 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

I'm doing the lighting design for one of my current clients builds, which also has a tall curved ceiling.

 

We have a big kitchen/dining/living space with vaulted ceilings and have specified a hidden led strip along the wall/ceiling join that will throw light upwards. We'll also make this dimmable in sections, so the kitchen space, the dining space and the living space. There'll also be 3 dimmable pendants over the kitchen island.  We'll add some floor lamps in the living space.

 

You have to get the housings for the leds in place before plastering of course.

 

Simon

[TonyT]

Wire every light and switch back to a central position and create a joint box that allows you flexibility.

 

wire normal switches with 3core and earth  instead of 2 core and earth so that it contains a neutral if required for electronic switching/smart devices.

[SimonD]

20 hours ago, markc said:

 the sparky will give recommendations to make it easier, not necessarily better.

 

Yes, that is what I've found and typically guides me towards just recessed lighting whereas what I'm most concerned about is getting a good desgn for ambient light - every house we've lived in so far has had terrible lighting sadly so we want to avoid this here.

[SimonD]

19 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Huge and bulb replacement, means scaffold to do it safely.  Think carefully how you will maintain once furniture is in place.  Low level up/down lights work well and are maintainable.

 

Yes, good point, our ceiling is at 3.6m

[SimonD]

19 hours ago, ProDave said:

As long as the electrician is doing "loop at switch" wiring, which is pretty normal these days, then all you need to decide right now is how many light circuits in each room, and then in your vaulted ceiling room just leave a long length of the switched light feed cable(s) ready to be positioned before the ceiling covering goes on, once you have decided what you want.

 

Decision time is just before plasterboard or other ceiling covering goes on.

 

That's very helpful, I suppose this way it's always possible to ask for an extra circuit or two to be in place just in case.

[SimonD]

11 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

I've suggested recessed wall uplighters to wash the ceiling area with enough upward light to allow sufficient ambient light to make its way down lower in the room, with the idea being to have light but not to see the source ( or as near as damnit ).

 

That's exactly what I'm aiming to do. From my reading of lighting design books, it's ambient light that's so important in good lighting design. I also still have the remnants of a medical condition that causes me problems in bright direct light, so when I'm in houses that use lots of downlights, especially led ones, I get headaches. They also seem to create dark areas all over the place if they're not well positioned.

 

In my ceiling space I've got some 'shelves' that I built into the knee walls above the steels that will serve the purpose of flooding indirect light from one direction, those recessed lights or something similar you show would be ideal on the opposite walls, plus, I'm looking to have led concealed strips along the glulam beams where they meet the ceiling. I just need to also decide where and what I need for direct lighting in kitchen/dining and the living area, as well as what would work best in the stairwell and the landing area.

 

The other area I'm struggling with is how bright the indirect lights need to be and have been buying led strips and other lights, including using work lights to test it out.

 

Pics to illustrate the space:

 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by SimonD

[SimonD]

On 28/01/2022 at 10:00, TonyT said:

Wire every light and switch back to a central position and create a joint box that allows you flexibility.

 

wire normal switches with 3core and earth  instead of 2 core and earth so that it contains a neutral if required for electronic switching/smart devices.

 

Hmm, interesting, thanks. I have little experience with electrics so assume this is a little bit like using a manifold in plumbing? Can you point me in the direction of more info on this so I can read up on it?

[Bramco]

On 28/01/2022 at 10:36, SimonD said:

when I'm in houses that use lots of downlights, especially led ones, I get headaches

 

I do too but I've always put this down to wearing contact lenses - I'm sure the lenses can cause glare close to the eye somehow.   Years ago when we lived in Sheffield we used to go to the Crucible which had thousands of very bright tiny lights on the ceiling.  I used to have to hold my hand over my eyes to stop the glare.

 

In the current house we have some rooms without any overhead light, only standard lamps and lamps on side tables etc. - from my eyes perspective, this provides lighting that is much more restful.

 

Simon

[TonyT]

2 hours ago, SimonD said:

 

Hmm, interesting, thanks. I have little experience with electrics so assume this is a little bit like using a manifold in plumbing? Can you point me in the direction of more info on this so I can read up .

 

it’s a common way of rewiring lighting depending on the construction of the home.

 

was more popular before people started doing loop in at the switches.

 

I like it because you just position the joint box at the loft hatch area so you can sit down with feet out the loft stripping the cables and making the joint box accessible and every switch has only one cable at it so nice and easy.

 

 

 

[SimonD]

6 minutes ago, TonyT said:

 

it’s a common way of rewiring lighting depending on the construction of the home.

 

was more popular before people started doing loop in at the switches.

 

I like it because you just position the joint box at the loft hatch area so you can sit down with feet out the loft stripping the cables and making the joint box accessible and every switch has only one cable at it so nice and easy.

 

Ah, I know exactly what you mean now. This is how the bungalow lighting was wired before I demolished most of it. Made it really easy for me to add lights and a bathroom fan while we were temporarily living in the place!

[SimonD]

2 hours ago, Bramco said:

 

I do too but I've always put this down to wearing contact lenses - I'm sure the lenses can cause glare close to the eye somehow.   Years ago when we lived in Sheffield we used to go to the Crucible which had thousands of very bright tiny lights on the ceiling.  I used to have to hold my hand over my eyes to stop the glare.

 

In the current house we have some rooms without any overhead light, only standard lamps and lamps on side tables etc. - from my eyes perspective, this provides lighting that is much more restful.

 

Simon

 

I think you might have hit the nail on the head in that it could be down to the glare. I too have to use my hand or wear a cap sometimes and when I got new clear frame glasses, it made it much worse under some lighting.

 

I was looking at the lighting in a local high end bespoke kitchen manufacturer's showroom just the other day and noticed how comfortable all the lighting was for my eyes. I noticed that any lights with potential glare where either hidden, or had shades to reduce glare to the eyes.