joe90 Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 (edited) Might be worth putting on a Clear coat after it’s stopped bulging and dry before you start hacking it off or applying even more rain screen. ?♂️ As I said above it’s certainly sealed our bricks on the west wall. Edited December 11, 2021 by joe90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 (edited) I have to say I concur with you, @saveasteading and @Gordo that it's most likely external moisture ingress and that microcracks may be playing a role. If your render is going through thermal shock while damp then it's got to be possible that the freeze-thaw expansion and contraction causes microcracks which let in more moisture over time. Having looked at the technical manual from my wood fibre manufacture, Schneider, I also suspect that movement in the timber frame plays a role here. Schneider wood states that their silicon resin plaster, similar to Baumit's sillikonTop, only has ETICS approval when the boards are fitted onto a masonry substrate. The alternative top coat is a mineral final render which appears to be fine on timber frame. They also recommend the application of a final levelling coat of silicon paint for extra weather protection on top of the silicon resin, or as the final coat on the mineral render final coat. This is quite different to the buildup used by Pavatex/Baumit and the now defunct NBT which is on your wall. It may be that, as already suggested, trying a final layer of protective silicon paint might help, but obviously damage has already been done. Edited December 11, 2021 by SimonD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 An update, not really because there is anything particular new to report, but more of a diary. I had the heavy wind driven rain followed by sharp frost that provoked the start of this thread. Not long after my last post we had another sharp frost, and no blistering issue. And since then we have had a lot of cold weather including right now, where it has been well below 0 for several days, the whole north facing side of the house is covered in a glistening layer of frost and not blister, bulge or any issue to be seen anywhere. This reinforces my view that the problem occurs when we get heavy wind driven rain that allows some moisture to get through the top coat, that then freezes, expands and blisters, possibly cracking the top coat in the process making it easier for more water ingress. The fact it does not blister again when it freezes a week later, suggests whatever moisture has got in dries out fairly quickly. And the fact that now even after a lot of sub zero weather, there are no other signs of problems suggests there is no other underlying moisture issue apart from the occasional heavy wind driven rain, which is a bit of a relief. So now it's a case of wait and monitor what happens to see if there are any other issues that need remedial work or not. Still fuming that Baumit are not interested in even looking at the problem or giving any advice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 34 minutes ago, ProDave said: Still fuming that Baumit are not interested in even looking at the problem or giving any advice. I don't blame you. I'd have thrown all my toys out of the pram with them by now. It's simply not on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 1 hour ago, ProDave said: An update Good news then. Thanks for the update. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 ? fingers crossed mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnibuswoman Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 @ProDave I’m wondering if you had a reply to your enquiry to BBA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 BBA said they cannot comment. I have posed that question (and others) the the CEO of Baumit. Awaiting their response.......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 On 10/12/2021 at 15:45, ProDave said: So further speculation: Water got in with the wind driven rain and when it froze it expanded. A few mild days has dried it out and there is no longer significant moisture there to expand when frozen. i'm trying to rationalize this, if it only happens with wind driven rain and the top coat is there to prevent water ingress to substrate, how is the wall managing to dry out so quickly? or is it that the top coat material is breathable? tbh i didn't read through first two posts and this may have been mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 My grown up kids tell me that if you want a response from the manufacturers, post every day on the manufacturers Facebook, and Twitter, with "don't use this product " pointing out that "BBa have pulled the cert". Post every day, and you will get a response within a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 25 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said: Post every day, I tend to agree, piss them off enough and they will respond, nobody likes bad publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 On 09/12/2021 at 15:02, Mr Punter said: Before Grenfell, Kingspan and Celotex were BBA certified for use on tall buildings. So was asbestos back in the day! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 20, 2022 Author Share Posted February 20, 2022 Well, the latest on this, is I did some googling, found the name and contact details of the managing director of Baumit (I found his contact details on Linkedin) and sent another email to try and get some help in resolving what has actually gone wrong here. This, I am very sad so say is his reply. Quote Good afternoon Mr. xxxxxx I have now returned from my break and reviewed your emails with my team. It is disappointing to hear that you have experienced problems with your façade. I do not believe that there has been any guarantee provided by Baumit for your project from my predecessor or any of the team here as supplied through Suprema, however if you have evidence to the contrary could you please provide me with this? If there is no guarantee from ourselves then all liability would reside with your installer / distributor of the system and we are unable to help you unfortunately. I look forward to your reply and supporting accordingly. So the MD of the company rejects any liability for the failure of their product ans is not even interested in looking at it to see what has actually gone wrong. You can draw your own conclusions, but I would not be buying from a company that has no interest in it's product once has has sold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Sorry to hear that @ProDavebut hardly surprising. I wonder is this a standard response. I had a colleague who having smashed an alloy on an unmended pothole wrote to the council. They sent a standard "not our fault" letter twice but paid up instantly on getting a legal letter. A new alloy was probably cheaper than paying a solicitor for them. I wouldn't be surprised if this company made a similar calc. Back to the practicalities. Do you think the issue lies with the render system being inherently unsuitable for the application over woodfiber or in general use in the Scottish climate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 20, 2022 Author Share Posted February 20, 2022 When re working some of the failed bits, I did observe what appeared to be pin holes in the top coat, I pictured those before. So my current speculations is wind driven rain drives water through these into the base coat, and if it freezes very soon after the moisture expands and causes the delamination. Freezing weather on it's own does not seem to cause an issue. Whether this is an inherent fault or limitation with respect to this product and this climate, is the big un answered question. In the absence of any input or interest from the manufacturer, then only time will answer that. i.e. if all the re worked areas now stand up okay without further problem then it may have been bad workmanship or a bad batch of materials. If the re worked areas fail again, then there must be more of an inherent issue with the product. I keep saying this is where I really really really want some technical input and interest from the manufacturer to work out what has happened and this is where they are woefully lacking and disinterested. Who would buy now from a company with such an attitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 @ProDave sorry if I missed it but have you tried the head office in Austria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 here are some phone numbers for robert schmid, son of founder and the ceo in austria. may as well go to the top https://baumit.co.uk/company/management 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 The head office people would probably be very concerned to hear about this problem with uk weather, and the adverse publicity in a specialist public forum. Perhaps give them a link in with you expression of disappointment . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbeard Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 @ProDave, I am buying my WF from Ty Mawr lime, but propose to buy Baumit MC55 from my usual supplier. I have signed up for Baumit's installer training at the start of June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 1, 2022 Author Share Posted June 1, 2022 Not only do I still have ongoing unresolved issues, I am devastated to announce that a few weeks ago, the plasterer that did all my work, passed away. so not only have I still got issues to resolve, and some more rework needed, I don't even have the faintest idea who I can call on for help and advice and to actually do the work now. It is a very lonely feeling here right now. But I would repeat my personal opinion that I would not use the Baumit system again, because you don't want to use a product where the manufacturer or their agent has no interest in the performance of their product and will offer no constructive advice as to what went wrong and how to correct it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 1, 2022 Author Share Posted June 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Redbeard said: @ProDave, I am buying my WF from Ty Mawr lime, but propose to buy Baumit MC55 from my usual supplier. I have signed up for Baumit's installer training at the start of June. On a personal note, if you get the chance, could you raise my issues with the Baumit product failing and ask what advice they would give you to identify why it has failed and how to rework it so it won't fail again. and please let us all know if you get a chance to do that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbeard Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 @ProDave, can I send you a private message or e-mail? I have searched for how to do a PM but it refers to a drop-down menu which I cannot find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 2, 2022 Author Share Posted June 2, 2022 Not sure why you can't find the PM link. Click on a members avatar which takes you to their profile page and at the top is a sens message button. If you can't get that to work follow the link at the bottom of my posts to my blog and at the bottom of my blog is a link to my business where you will find my email address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbeard Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Thanks! Only ever been a member of one forum before and that doesn't have a PM 'feature'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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