Why is my house so cold?!

[Cognis0]

In June we bought a 1960s bungalow as a project with major works planned aiming at EnerPHit type standards of insulation (although we are unlikely to be able to achieve that). In the meanwhile, we are living in the property until the work is carried out next year.

 

We have been cold in the house since we moved in ~ even in the middle of summer the house can hardly be described as warm, and the towels never seem to dry out ~ even in July! Our gas boiler was condemned a few weeks ago and we are in the process of having this replaced as we can't live through the winter without it and it may prove useful for top-up if the planned heat pump can't cope with deep winter conditions. So the house has had no heating for the best part of a month and having just returned from holiday abroad this place is absolutely freezing ~ its like walking into a fridge and the bungalow seems to be colder inside than out.

 

The construction is 225mm natural stone external leaf with nominal 50mm cavity and 100mm Thermalite type block inner leaf. The floor is raised timber and traditional roof construction with about 100mm glass fibre insulation in the loft (1980s?!). There is 18m2 of large south-facing picture windows which are double glazed as they are throughout with reasonable quality windows and no signs of any drafts. We are planning fairly substantial internal wood fibre insulation to the walls etc, but as an interim measure, the cavity has been filled with Thermabead.

 

This is the newest property I have ever lived in, but is most definitely the coldest by a very long way. I recently moved from a Georgian-era house with 6 sets of single glazed drafty French doors, but it is far colder than that (and I don't recall putting the heating on before about mid-October).

 

It is a mystery to me why this house is so cold and I am concerned that normal heat loss calculations will not be accurate. Can anyone shed any light on why this property is so cold? It's miserable here and we can't wait for the replacement boiler to be fitted ~ as a long-term project to produce a warm, comfortable, economical and attractive property we are beginning to lose faith.

 

I've just checked ~ 5pm on Sunday thermometer is reading 13 degrees C. I'm surprised its that warm!

 

I welcome your comments..

Edited October 24, 2021 by Cognis0

[ToughButterCup]

15 minutes ago, Cognis0 said:

...

It is a mystery to me why this house is so cold .... Can anyone shed any light on why this property is so cold?

...

 

I am really no expert. But I read a lot. The answers are likely to centre on

• airtightness (well, the opposite - leakage)
• The U value of the build  material 
• Thermal bridges
• Do you have chimney? If so, it works 24 / 7 / 366 drawing air out of your house
• The orientation of your house in relation to the passage of the sun

Proper knowledgeable folk will be along in a minute.

Welcome, by the way.

Ian

[tonyshouse]

Suspended floor is likely very air leaky and is uninsulated so likely to cool the house 

 

100mm loft insulation is inadequate, 400mm minimum. 
 

empty house will get cold especially unoccupied - let the sun in as much as you can 

 

search for draughts from under skirtings, socket outlets, under window boards, pipe boxing’s, under bath 

 

[Conor]

Go to B&Q and get a dozen rolls of loft insulation. Best couple hundred of quid and half day of work you'll ever spend. You want another 300mm on top of the joists. 

[Onoff]

Some good info and ideas here in @Ferdinand's blog:

 

 

 

[Iceverge]

First things first. 

 

Have you made absolutely sure that no outside water is getting in anywhere. Leaking gutters, weeping pipe joints, exterior kept damp by high ground or vegetation against the walls

A damp house will be almost impossible to heat and will cool instantly the moment you turn off any heating.  

 

Next have a look at ventilation. The house could well have the common but dual problem of being too drafty when it's windy but also under ventilated the rest of the time. We close all paths for air on a breezy cold night and don't open them later on.  Hence a cold house when it's windy due to drafts and a damp house otherwise because the structure can't dry.

 

The solution to this is mechanical ventilation that runs 24/7 and doubling down on airtightness. 

 

 

PIV is the beginning of the road with this

 

 

 

 

MEV/CEV/DCV next

 

 

 

And if you know about Enerfit you'll be familiar with MVHR. The ideal standard. 

 

 

Airtightness it the elephant in the room here.  Suspended timber floor and (I guess??)plasterboard dot and dab over thermalite are dreadful for airtightness. This combined with what I wager is less than perfect pointing on the facing ston. The wind blow right through the house's structure. No wonder you're cold.

 

My advice is if you are a competent DIYer is to go room by room and seal every gap with flexible caulk. Take off the lighting rose and seal where the wire goes into the plasterboard etc etc. It might sound ridiculous but every single crack that you could fit a hair through will make your house colder. If you're really keen make a DIY blower door fan from a sheet of OSB and a car radiator fan. It works a treat and many on here have done it. Re mastic around the windows externally and spend a day with a tub of putty and fix any holes in the exterior pointing. 

 

Beware making your house airtight without making sure ventilation is sorted though. It's a recipe for mould. 

 

You will need to take up any floor coverings and put down a membrane at the minimum over your timber floor. Preferable to insulate underneath also

 

Adjust your windows and doors so they seal perfectly.

 

Once this is done you can tackle insulation but I wouldn't begin this until airtightness is done as it won't make much difference while you're living in a collander!

 

Welcome and good luck!   

 

 

P.S any photos always help the case. 

 

 

 

 

[ProDave]

Personally if you are doing a full refurbishment, I would hold fire on the extra loft insulation just now.  It makes it a mare of a job to work in the loft.  Stick to what little is there until you have done all the refurb work i.e. plumbing, wiring, mvhr etc and then insulate the loft properly.  For this winter just accept a high heating bill.

[Ferdinand]

It sounds like it needs a full renovation. It sounds as if you have no insulation at all, except for the 100mm in the loft.

 

You may be able to get free loft insulation from a local service, but if there is 100mm there already then they may say you are not eligible. What I do is take out the 100mm, and then get the free stuff, and then use the 100mm under the floor as part of my insulation. 

 

I would be looking at things you can do first - perhaps double glazing is one of them, as a window can be done in a half day. A sensible approach would be one room at a time to contain the mess, high tog duvets and electric blankets / or hot water bottles.

 

There may also be some stuff in the budget.

 

What are the details on your EPC report? 

 

Here is a piece with a few tips I did. Ignore the "switch supplier" at present.

 

 

F

[SteamyTea]

I have just got home, house has been shut up for a week, but the windows have been 'on the latch', so the place is ventilated.

18°C in my kitchen, which is NE facing, so if there was sun today (think it has been rain), the kitchen has not had any since noon.

It is 14°C outside.

No heating on, not been on since March I think.

 

Where in the country are you?

Edited October 24, 2021 by SteamyTea

[TonyT]

41 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

It sounds like it needs a full renovation. It sounds as if you have no insulation at all, except for the 100mm in the loft.

 

You may be able to get free loft insulation from a local service, but if there is 100mm there already then they may say you are not eligible. What I do is take out the 100mm, and then get the free stuff, and then use the 100mm under the floor as part of my insulation. 

 

I would be looking at things you can do first - perhaps double glazing is one of them, as a window can be done in a half day. A sensible approach would be one room at a time to contain the mess, high tog duvets and electric blankets / or hot water bottles.

 

There may also be some stuff in the budget.

 

What are the details on your EPC report? 

 

Here is a piece with a few tips I did. Ignore the "switch supplier" at present.

 

 

F

Aren’t these free insulation offers means tested?

[Temp]

3 hours ago, Cognis0 said:

the towels never seem to dry out ~ even in July!

 

That could be due to inadequate ventilation and higher humidity rather than temperature.

[SteamyTea]

8 minutes ago, Temp said:

That could be due to inadequate ventilation and higher humidity rather than temperature.

 

4 hours ago, Cognis0 said:

I've just checked ~ 5pm on Sunday thermometer is reading 13 degrees C. I'm surprised its that warm!

13°C is still chilly.

[tonyshouse]

Re Ferdinand’s blog 

 

changing supplier doesn’t save any energy, may save money, and spending that on energy may make house warmer but still not saving energy.

 

LED bulbs save electricity but the building will be cooler without the heat formerly produced by the luminaries, relevant in the heating season. 
 

I like it overall though. 

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, tonyshouse said:

Re Ferdinand’s blog 

 

changing supplier doesn’t save any energy, may save money, and spending that on energy may make house warmer but still not saving energy.

 

LED bulbs save electricity but the building will be cooler without the heat formerly produced by the luminaries, relevant in the heating season. 
 

I like it overall though. 

 

That's fair comment - it's a 3 year old (2018)  article. But the article is  actually about saving money first - was a response to someone with high bills, and switching has been the lowest hanging fruit for the last decade at least. It was slightly slugged when the Energy Cap came in, as that effectively balanced the market towards non-switchers to an extent. And obvs at present it is not  re-applicable until the market loosens.

 

It's really up there for people who are just starting, and for me to link to in random comment sections etc on any old site.

[Ferdinand]

19 hours ago, TonyT said:

Aren’t these free insulation offers means tested?

 

It changes. In my area the basic insulation in a normal cold loft has always been free if my memory serves - I have had them done while renovating, or while a non-benefit claiming T has been in place. Always worth asking, as it is a job they do in half an hour. I have had 3 or 4 in total. The thing that catches people is any requirement for there to be less than 100mm to qualify - so always take it out before the surveyor comes. And don't answer the "how much insulation is there in your lift" query - say "I don''t know, does it make a difference?", and they will tell you what you need to know.

 

 I once had a pile on my drive, and all the solitary bees migrated into it and later surprised the handyman.

 

I have had a couple of free boilers, but on those you need a T in the property is claiming an appropriate benefit.

 

I think cavity wall insulation may also be unrestricted, but I have only known one or two non-benefit claiming friends get that - my houses have had it done already, narrow partial cavities, or solid walls (where insulation *is* means tested). 

 

Also, ECO3 goes via the energy supply company, and rules vary to a degree aiui. So potentially you can switch to access the thing you need if it matches.

 

The above is roughly right, but I have not had one for several years.

 

There is also a change of scheme coming as ECO3 finishes in March. So if it changes there is an opportunity to choose. Personally I think it works well and has avoided the politics, so should be trebled in scale and let the energy prices come back down more gradually. There will be a lot of demand from LLs, as the EPC requirements look like being brought forward by a couple of years, and the spending cap before LL can plead "too much" things going from 3.5k to 10k, rightly. That latter will hurt some.

 

I'm expecting heat pumps to replace free gas boilers - maybe.

 

F

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

13°C is still chilly.

 

In this house we call that "balmy".

[Ferdinand]

9 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

In this house we call that "balmy".

 

Autocorrect changed your R to an L .

[billt]

No one seems to have pointed out the obvious: the house isn't being heated enough, or at all. Get the boiler fixed. 13C is about right for an unheated house at the moment.

 

If we go away for a few days with the heating set to frost protect the house is cold (if I've forgotten to turn it back on remotely a few hours before we arrive). Heating on for a few hours and it's back to normal.

 

All the stuff about insulation etc is fine, but it won't make the house any warmer.

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, billt said:

All the stuff about insulation etc is fine, but it won't make the house any warmer.

Except it keeps the solar gain in.

My house, when unheated, is usually 4 to 5°C warmer than external air temperature.

Just as well as I hate turning the heating on.

[Ferdinand]

@Cognis0

 

Where are you, roughly?

[ProDave]

40 minutes ago, billt said:

No one seems to have pointed out the obvious: the house isn't being heated enough, or at all. Get the boiler fixed. 13C is about right for an unheated house at the moment.

 

If we go away for a few days with the heating set to frost protect the house is cold (if I've forgotten to turn it back on remotely a few hours before we arrive). Heating on for a few hours and it's back to normal.

 

All the stuff about insulation etc is fine, but it won't make the house any warmer.

Now house in the Highlands, I bet it's colder than where you are, heating not on yet, 20 degrees inside still.

[Cognis0]

22 hours ago, Iceverge said:

Have you made absolutely sure that no outside water is getting in anywhere. Leaking gutters, weeping pipe joints, exterior kept damp by high ground or vegetation against the walls

A damp house will be almost impossible to heat and will cool instantly the moment you turn off any heating.  

 

Next have a look at ventilation. The house could well have the common but dual problem of being too drafty when it's windy but also under ventilated the rest of the time. We close all paths for air on a breezy cold night and don't open them later on.  Hence a cold house when it's windy due to drafts and a damp house otherwise because the structure can't dry.

Good comments, thanks. The house seems to be bone dry with no evidence anywhere of any water ingress. There are no perceptible drafts, although when the Thermabead was installed they insisted on installing trickle vents in the windows. We have just come back from a week away, and whilst we left the trickle vents open the bed linen does seem to be damp ~ so this needs further investigation.

[Cognis0]

22 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

I have just got home, house has been shut up for a week, but the windows have been 'on the latch', so the place is ventilated.

18°C in my kitchen, which is NE facing, so if there was sun today (think it has been rain), the kitchen has not had any since noon.

It is 14°C outside.

No heating on, not been on since March I think.

 

Where in the country are you?

We are in Somerset, not renound for being the coldest part of the country! The property should have good thermal mass and good thermal gain from the large south-facing windows. If it had an uninsulated concrete floor I could understand that might "suck" heat out of the building, but it has a timber floor that is warm to the touch and drafts are conspicuous by their absence. But I do know other people who have complained about 1960s properties being very cold ~ I just can't work out why!

[Cognis0]

2 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

@Cognis0

 

Where are you, roughly?

Somerset, where they make cheese and cider..!

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, Cognis0 said:

thermal mass

Wash your mouth out with soap and vinegar.

 

Why would a floor suck the heat out any different from a cold wall?

 

There are those that think that mass equals free heating, and then there are those that study this and know it cools a house in the UK climate. Except in a heat wave, then it gets warmer for a day or two, but nowhere near external peak temperatures.

 

Seems like you need to insulate and get the air changes under control.