Claire B Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Hi, My son, 22, is leaving a city desk job he hates and would like to look into a career as a builder. Where does he start? What courses, books & qualifications should he look at doing? Any good Youtube channels or Podcasts you recommend? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 The usual method is to do a technical course at college, something on this list: https://www.truro-penwith.ac.uk/what-to-study/our-departments/construction But at is age it will cost, so maybe an apprenticeship: https://www.apprenticeships.gov.uk/apprentices/browse-by-interests/construction If he does not already have a degree, then maybe consider one, if he does have one, maybe a Master. The really hard part will be getting experience, he may be lucky and find a small builder that is interested in training up someone, but would probably be better off in a large organisation, maybe the local council, or a railway company. There are also may aspects to 'building'. Maybe thinking about which part of the industry he is really interested in may help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Pretty spot on advice there. Where abouts in the country is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyshouse Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 When I left Uni I worked as a volunteer on a building project for 6 months and three months later became a builder - only qualification was the price! retired at 51 owning several houses and later built my own house I did get a demolition certificate was corgi registered under grandfather rights, never did any formal building qualifications, nothing is difficult my advice - just start doing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 I think @Construction Channel did a formal apprenticeship fairly recently (to us old ones). Not sure if he still posts up on here, he is in Essex though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Apprenticeships are the way to go. We started doing them in our company (civil engineering) and had great success. Both of the last apprentices are now full time.employooes. I'm sure one of the big commercial or residential building companies will do something similar, with the rain to get people trained up as foremen etc. It'll also give him a better idea of what he wants to do... "Builder" isn't really. Single job! Site supervision? Project management? Safety? Plant operator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 I am another self taught builder, (tho after a long career in telecoms), I have done up various houses of my own and when made redundant was inundated with requests from colleagues and friends to do building work fir them which turned into me being self employed. I do have a very practical “mindset” and despite finishing my build still interested (why I am still on the forum). I do think you need to specialise a bit, I never laid bricks and blocks and avoided “wet” trades, I concentrated on woodwork, plumbing, tiling and fitted many kitchens ad bathrooms, despite no formal training I turned down more work than I took on due to reputation and price. When I am asked who to take on work nothing works better than recomendations from satisfied customers. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 11 hours ago, Claire B said: ... Where does he start? .... This is going to sound brutal: the intention is the opposite but at this remove, it's impossible to judge. I do hope what I write isn't interpreted as such. And your post is obviously written with kindness and concern. He starts by making his own mind up. And researching for himself: he's over 20 ... The research process will teach him a huge amount. This sector is about as dysfunctional as it's possible to get. The image on old maps with 'Here be Dragons ' on them could not be more apt. @SteamyTea's advice above is sound. If he has a degree consider a Degree Apprenticeship. He will have to start by showing willing and real keenenss to muck in, do what he says he will do, turn up regularly, be on time, and be prepared to take all the nonsense that customers and explotative employers throw at him. He will have to work in teams where it common to have lazy non-committed colleagues, watch sharp practice in action and keep schtumm. Have smoothe edges roughened. If he has an appetite for extremes, get a start with a scaffolding team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire B Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: This is going to sound brutal: the intention is the opposite but at this remove, it's impossible to judge. I do hope what I write isn't interpreted as such. And your post is obviously written with kindness and concern. He starts by making his own mind up. And researching for himself: he's over 20 ... The research process will teach him a huge amount. This sector is about as dysfunctional as it's possible to get. The image on old maps with 'Here be Dragons ' on them could not be more apt. @SteamyTea's advice above is sound. If he has a degree consider a Degree Apprenticeship. He will have to start by showing willing and real keenenss to muck in, do what he says he will do, turn up regularly, be on time, and be prepared to take all the nonsense that customers and explotative employers throw at him. He will have to work in teams where it common to have lazy non-committed colleagues, watch sharp practice in action and keep schtumm. Have smoothe edges roughened. If he has an appetite for extremes, get a start with a scaffolding team. Thank you, I am encouraging him to do his own research and figure out the path for himself but as I'll be funding his venture I want to check he's on the right track and hasn't missed anything. He'll want to work for himself and hire trades in. I have land I'm hoping to get planning on so that could be his first project. You and I know that some experience working for someone else would be beneficial but Im not sure if he'll fit in on your average building site (went to private school and it shows!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire B Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 43 minutes ago, joe90 said: I am another self taught builder, (tho after a long career in telecoms), I have done up various houses of my own and when made redundant was inundated with requests from colleagues and friends to do building work fir them which turned into me being self employed. I do have a very practical “mindset” and despite finishing my build still interested (why I am still on the forum). I do think you need to specialise a bit, I never laid bricks and blocks and avoided “wet” trades, I concentrated on woodwork, plumbing, tiling and fitted many kitchens ad bathrooms, despite no formal training I turned down more work than I took on due to reputation and price. When I am asked who to take on work nothing works better than recomendations from satisfied customers. Best of luck. Thank you, this is encouraging. I have land with old buildings on I'm hoping to get planning on so he could just get stuck in and have a go (with my supervision!). Ive converted some old buildings myself (using professionals for every aspect) so have some experience of the process. I see there are colleges that offer one / two week courses in each trade, this could give him some basic knowledge of each to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire B Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Conor said: Apprenticeships are the way to go. We started doing them in our company (civil engineering) and had great success. Both of the last apprentices are now full time.employooes. I'm sure one of the big commercial or residential building companies will do something similar, with the rain to get people trained up as foremen etc. It'll also give him a better idea of what he wants to do... "Builder" isn't really. Single job! Site supervision? Project management? Safety? Plant operator? Thank you, we'll have a look at apprenticeships. By 'builder' I think he imagines buying plots, building (or converting a building) something on it (managing and subcontracting trades) then selling on. He needs to know what the process is and how to manage it, and have a basic understanding of each trade. It might be useful to learn a trade himself so he could do an aspect of the build himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire B Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 4 hours ago, tonyshouse said: When I left Uni I worked as a volunteer on a building project for 6 months and three months later became a builder - only qualification was the price! retired at 51 owning several houses and later built my own house I did get a demolition certificate was corgi registered under grandfather rights, never did any formal building qualifications, nothing is difficult my advice - just start doing it! Thank you, this is encouraging. I think he'd like to just have a go and I have land with a planning application ongoing which could enable several houses to be built eventually. He's lived though my own build has some knowledge of the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire B Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 11 hours ago, Jonny said: Pretty spot on advice there. Where abouts in the country is he? Essex, countryside, near Stansted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire B Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 12 hours ago, SteamyTea said: The usual method is to do a technical course at college, something on this list: https://www.truro-penwith.ac.uk/what-to-study/our-departments/construction But at is age it will cost, so maybe an apprenticeship: https://www.apprenticeships.gov.uk/apprentices/browse-by-interests/construction If he does not already have a degree, then maybe consider one, if he does have one, maybe a Master. The really hard part will be getting experience, he may be lucky and find a small builder that is interested in training up someone, but would probably be better off in a large organisation, maybe the local council, or a railway company. There are also may aspects to 'building'. Maybe thinking about which part of the industry he is really interested in may help. Thank you so much. yes we're looking at college technical courses though he doesn't want to spend a few years in college full time at his age but perhaps shorter courses, or part time would be useful. He's tried the degree route and it's not for him, he wants to be 'doing' rather than writing essays. The link to apprenticeships is very useful, some of those sound interesting. By 'building' he imagines buying plots, building (or converting) something by planning it, subcontracting & managing the build then selling on. I think it would be useful for him to have some experience of each trade even if he's subcontracting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 30 minutes ago, Claire B said: went to private school and it shows So did I, it don't show now. If the school thing bothers him, all he has to say is 'i had no choice'. What sort of City Job has he got at the moment? I also found returning to college was successful if I was away from my friends and family. I did an engineering (toolmaking) apprenticeship, then went off to university in Dorset. Was one of the best experiences of my life at 21. Someone else asked a similar question a while back about the best academic route for builders. I suggest studying Law, Physics and something else, may have been bookkeeping, or sandwich making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, Claire B said: By 'building' he imagines buying plots, building (or converting) something by planning it, subcontracting & managing the build then selling on. I think it would be useful for him to have some experience of each trade even if he's subcontracting. So he will need a lot of collateral behind him. With no experience or history of company accounts he will struggle to borrow. He’s looking at being a developer, and given the margins he will make (probably 7-10% max unless he is very hands on) if he wants to make a decent living then he needs to be turning £500k a year which is 2 average properties. He will need £3-400k in liquidity to do that - where is that money coming from ..?? I don’t want to put him off, but if he wants to be a developer then he’s going to have to do a lot more than manage the builds until he’s got decent money in the bank to fund a series of builds. He will also need some good subs - the point at which they realise he is inexperienced then the weasels will find him. Property development isn’t all Sarah Beeny and smiles - I would hazard a guess there are more failures than successes, and it’s bloody hard work. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Claire B said: Thank you, I am encouraging him to do his own research and figure out the path for himself but as I'll be funding his venture I want to check he's on the right track and hasn't missed anything. He'll want to work for himself and hire trades in. I have land I'm hoping to get planning on so that could be his first project. You and I know that some experience working for someone else would be beneficial but Im not sure if he'll fit in on your average building site (went to private school and it shows!). I'm wondering from this whether he actually wants to be a builder - as in hands-on doing the creation and improvement work - or more as a developer - managing and organising others to do the work to create and improve buildings. These are very different things and require rather different skillsets. **Edit - I just saw this bit had been dealt with while I was writing ** My nephew, only 18 at the moment is exploring similar things as part of a year or two off before Uni. He's been helping me out on site for a couple of years and has now gone around his neighbourhood offering to help out. He's now fully booked by people who need extra help, but are also teaching him the ropes - this is everything from grounds maintenance, labouring for a builder, mowing lawns, fixing machinery and various bits with me including carpentry, brick work, etc. etc. He's also getting loads of practical input in how to set up and run a sustainable business. Given that there is currently a shortage of labour, I'd reckon your son could phone around some local builders and offer to help them out - possibly free - to see if it suits him. But undoubtedly he'll first be given the crap jobs to do. The problem with the college courses being offered is that the environment is totally different from the real world. I'm always accused of being too wellspoken and posh in my areas of work, including the building stuff, but what I've found is that doesn't matter for long if you're happy to get stuck in and graft. You also have to demonstrate your knowledge a bit more because some do try to get away with stuff thinking you're a naive toff! The most important thing to keep in mind is that it isn't just about building. If he's going to make it, he's also got to understand the fundamentals of running an business (probably even more important than the nuts and bolts of building). And he's going to have to understand project management. There are many great builders out there but a lot of them can't organise and/or manage a business and projects for toffee, because they're so different. Another thing that I think he needs to be aware of is that in running such a business, it's a massive grind a lot of the time, especially in construction. Very stressful and there's a lot of mental health problems in the construction industry (mostly overlooked and ignored), partly because many construction environments are really unpleasant place to work. There's not a lot of openness about this but it's better to be prepared. Beyond the self-building, my professional background is in psychology and I still work with clients going through this kind of stuff all the time (I've actually just been asked by a client if I can be a primary contact for all his employees and subcontractors for initial support). But the most important first step to assesing his capability, is whether he now shows the initiative, in part to work it out for himself and to put the time in - whether it's a course or experience, whether he likes it or not, it's going to take him a few years to learn the basics, a few years of developing skills, experience, and a network of contacts, and then a few years to get going. Patience and initiative are key and there are no shortcuts. Edited July 10, 2021 by SimonD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Claire B said: ... Im not sure if he'll fit in on your average building site (went to private school and it shows!). Hmmm, have a read of the series of posts I wrote about 'Rollo'. I suggest you start at the first episode here The rest are listed here 'Rollo' is still around, so is his family. See him in the pub : a nod and grin (followed by a quick sneeky gawp at the latest squeeze - often stunning) He is a really smashing lad. I've watched him grow from a wet-behind-the-ears neo-builder to someone who is holding down a builder's job. He's as cut-glass as you can get. Takes the merciless teasing in his stride - but he's stuck with it and I respect him for that. His family is rumoured to be among the wealthiest in the county - matters not a jot. Except I suppose that he knows that he has 'in depth' backing. But the point is he's stuck with it. Give your lad five years of rough and tumble on building sites first. Don't bail him out: that will be the greatest compliment you can pay him. May not feel like it. If he can stick it - then he will have gained some solid self-respect, secure in the knowledge that nobody could treat him worse than those in the building trade AND he's survived it. No difference between that and the process of doing a doctorate, or getting into the Marines or getting a CPL or getting through Medical School. They are all unpleasantly difficult hardening off processes. I wish him well. Does he want a job on my site? Edited July 10, 2021 by ToughButterCup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Come and work with me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, pocster said: Come and work with me ? Nooooo..... nooooooooooooooo..... Your lad will come back home with half a tonne of walk-on glazing - and then try to sell it. @pocster would become even more insufferable 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 minute ago, ToughButterCup said: Nooooo..... nooooooooooooooo..... Your lad will come back home with half a tonne of walk-on glazing - and then try to sell it. @pocster would become even more insufferable But imagine his skill set !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Tiler extraordinaire, glazier with no fingers left, naturist and frizbee lover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire B Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 59 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: Hmmm, have a read of the series of posts I wrote about 'Rollo' I have now, thanks, I think he would get on well with Rollo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire B Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said: I wish him well. Does he want a job on my site? Aw thanks, I think you're a bit far away. I'll be advising he reads this site from top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire B Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, PeterW said: He will need £3-400k in liquidity to do that - where is that money coming from ..?? I can fund it... which is why I want to be involved at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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