Recommendations for highly insulated, easy to use loft hatch & ladder

[readiescards]

The spec for my top floor ceiling is U value of 0.10 W/m2k - therefore I'm looking for a decent loft hatch and ladder to match and would appreciated any suggestions

FYI I should be using it every few months to clean the MVHR unit so easy to use is more important than cost

Thanks

[Guest Alphonsox]

I don't think you are going to find an all in one solution that will give you that level of insulation. (I did look a few years ago)

We have  a standard drop down loft ladder. The seal is good enough to meet passive(ish) air tightness requirements. Above this we have a large block of PIR which is pulled over the loft opening to provide insulation and acts like an insulated plug. It's not pretty but is cheap and apparently effective.

[tonyshouse]

Don't exist, I have a wooden draught sealed ladder and above it a well to allow for 450mm loft insulation, 50 mm ventilation gap then 18mm deck, an extra trap over this well sealed all round with 100mm sheet insulation 

[PeterW]

+1 to those. 

I fitted a loft ladder into 350mm of fibre insulated loft space - made a sealed ply box round the side (bigger at the steps side) and insulated that with 100mm of Celotex and then hinged a ply lid onto that, again with 100mm Celotex. 

Works really well and allows the use of an airtight drop door mounted loft ladder and keeps the warmth in 

[Fallingditch]

On 26/05/2016 at 19:49, PeterW said:

+1 to those. 

I fitted a loft ladder into 350mm of fibre insulated loft space - made a sealed ply box round the side (bigger at the steps side) and insulated that with 100mm of Celotex and then hinged a ply lid onto that, again with 100mm Celotex. 

Works really well and allows the use of an airtight drop door mounted loft ladder and keeps the warmth in 

 

Could you maybe post a couple of images, Peter?

[Stones]

On 5/26/2016 at 07:25, Alphonsox said:

I don't think you are going to find an all in one solution that will give you that level of insulation. (I did look a few years ago)

We have  a standard drop down loft ladder. The seal is good enough to meet passive(ish) air tightness requirements. Above this we have a large block of PIR which is pulled over the loft opening to provide insulation and acts like an insulated plug. It's not pretty but is cheap and apparently effective.

 

Very similar to what we did in our last house.  Standard insulated loft hatch with large block of sheet insulation bonded to the back of the hatch, then more pulled over opening.  

[PeterW]

5 hours ago, Fallingditch said:

 

Could you maybe post a couple of images, Peter?

 

Not sure I have any but will do a quick sketch and scan it later if that's ok ..??

[readiescards]

@PeterW I think I understand but the quick sketch would still be useful if poss. Thanks

[Guest Alphonsox]

Here is a truly dreadful picture of our solution. As you may be able to see we have a PIR plug that fits in the loft hatch "hole" and overlaps by a few inches on all sides.

[tonyshouse]

Simple and effective I should think, I would add some jumbo draughty strip to the underside of the top sheet where it sits on the flooring and fireproof board or ply somewhere and some weight again ply on top of it.

[PeterW]

On 21/10/2016 at 08:35, readiescards said:

@PeterW I think I understand but the quick sketch would still be useful if poss. Thanks

 

Been hiding somewhere warm for the past few days - will do it this weekend ..!

[Fallingditch]

On 2016-5-26 at 06:51, readiescards said:

I'm looking for a decent loft hatch and ladder to match

 

Did you have any joy? 

A cheap and cheerful one got fitted for me and it is absolute rubbish.

 

I understand many people's  focus has been on sealing the thing, but I have to say I am most interested in the ergonomics - sourcing a ladder that that can be easily raised and lowered - pulling it/pushing it with a pole?

 

My dad had an aluminium one years ago - worked a treat!

[PeterW]

The combined hatch and ladder ones are good but they need a big gap in the ceiling joists which can cause some issues. 

[CC45]

Just fitted a loft hatch on Saturday, one off ebay - about £70.  Polish made.  Optistep make.  Went in ok.  Fitted 3 others - all Youngmans and to be honest I'd stick to Youngmans because of a better hinge mechanism.  I intend to do as others have done - insulated plug in the loft space with a draft excluder no further minimise drafts (one good thing about the Optistep is that its the springs (very strong) that 'close' the hatch so there's no air leakage from an opening mechanism).

 

The 55cm wide ones should fit into joists without cutting any timbers, I've fitted the 60cm one so did have to modify the roof joists. All pretty straight forward though.  Settled on a 110 cm length, 100cm is ok, much shorter  than this and getting in and out with 'stuff' is a pain

 

Cc

[readiescards]

In the end I went with this:

https://www.keyliteroofwindows.com/categories/loft-ladders

 

While it is probably ok thermally it is not that great in ergonomic terms I feel, very stiff lock & very stiff ladder to unfold. I went for one that fits between my 600mm centre trusses but this has given a rather narrow entry. In summary it is ok but if you are using it every day go for something different

[Fallingditch]

10 hours ago, Fallingditch said:

My dad had an aluminium one years ago - worked a treat!

 

And here it is:  'the Ramsay Original' ... ("Note: We DO NOT supply the trapdoor cover".)

Pull it down with a pole; nip up; nip down; push it up with the pole.

 

So I wonder - can any of the creative handiworkers on this thread suggest a trapdoor cover which I could use to get a good seal? and a method of insulating that cover?

 

[Onoff]

Looking at that Ramsay one I'd say you could raise the trap door panel up to roughly the top of the joists and put a BFO slab of insulation underneath it. As for sealing, I'd look at rebates and draught seals on the battens the trap closes against.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Onoff

[PeterW]

Insulating this sort of thing is where Aerogel comes in to its own. It's not cheap but for a very small area that needs thin insulation it's ideal. 

[CC45]

I avoided that sort of loft hatch ladder.  There are other similar ones but they hinge on a joist.  The trap door is separate so insulating it further is a possibility.  Thats what I did with it although in those days I didnt pay too much attention to draft exclusion.  For the pain involved in fitting the whole lot - why dont you just fit the full on / posh versions.  The overall extra cost wont be much.....

[willbish]

Reviving this thread as there now appears to be several passive house level loft ladders on the market ranging from £370 to £1435  with others in between

 

All seem to come with a class 4 air tightness rating and various different levels of insulation.

 

Im drawn to this mid range model (still over £800 smackers ?) with selection of sizes and what appears decent sized springs. Will also go with the 'PIR plug' as mentioned above to bump up the insulation value.

Will be installing in JJI joists

 

Anyone have recommendations or steers?

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by willbish

[Redoctober]

We have had one of the "mid range models" installed and it works a treat. Ours too has been installed between JJI Joists. Fits well and have had no issues with the operating side of things either.

[MrMagic]

If you can cope with buying the loft hatch and ladder separate then check out https://www.jupiterblue.co.uk/ for hatches. They show U value etc. 

 

Got one in my non-passiv-haus. Seems to seal and insulate well. 

 

EDIT - just noticed that Fakro one is U0.51 whereas the Jupiter one goes as low as 0.15! It’s only a tiny area tho so not much of a big deal I guess 

Edited August 24, 2019 by MrMagic

[tanneja]

Does anyone have an opinion as to the right size of loft hatch that one should consider?  These Jumpiter Blue ones only seem to go up to 760mm by 560mm, I had provisioned for larger (up to 12000mm x 700mm) but maybe this JP side is good enough for getting things up and down.

 

Also should i be paying attention to any kind of spring hinges to make the opening and closing smoother?

 

I was thinking adding a telescopic laddar to the joist inside the opening to minimise footprint inside and make a PIR plug for extra insulation.

[john0wingnut]

Dolle Uk do a 0.49 one in varying sizes. I had a young masters one in a previous house and this Dolle one is much better build quality.