Have I been robbed

[Shaky1978]

I landscaped my garden and built up with sleepers all that needed doing was slabs laid 2 drainage one outside of back door and one out side man cave 

 

I was quoted for 4 man job 6 days to lay 50 square metres with paving border and drainage.

 

Job took 4 days there was only 3 guys apart from one day when there was 4 and my garden only took 39 square metres.i have 600 by 900 black lime stone laid.

There was 4 ton bags of sharp sand 3 ton of type 1 pallet and half of block pavers plus cement.

After job completed I'm still left with over 100 pavers and because they quoted me for 50 sqaure meters I'm left with 14 slabs 

 

The price was £4400 

I had to buy my own slabs which was 1k 

They didnt have to do no ground work as I already did it 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Shaky1978

[Mr Punter]

If that is the price they quoted and you agreed to it I can't see how you have lost out.  Did you get any other quotes?  Best to get 3 if the job is worth more than £2k.

[Bitpipe]

Where in UK are you & did you get the usual 3 quotes before choosing? 

 

How did the 50sqm / 39sqm issue paving difference arise, that's almost a 20% over measurement. Did you measure it out originally?

 

Unfortunately, unless you agree a day rate (which has its own challenges) the number of days / men is irrelevant.

[markc]

A priced job is just that. Had it taken the 3 men (are you allowed to say that now?) 10 days would you be wanting to pay them extra?

The over measurement is also a tricky one, if they did it, you could have checked it.

[Shaky1978]

Ok fair enough just thought I'd ask 

 

[AliG]

You cannot do anything about it, but it is a useful lesson.

 

I never let tradesmen measure up without doing it myself first. They nearly always over measure as it bumps up the price and they don't like to run out of materials. It is not their problem if you have loads left when they are finished.

 

4 men 6 days to lay 50 square metres. That is just over 2 square metres per man per day, or 4 slabs per man per day. Again I always try and figure out what is a reasonable amount of work per person per day. TBH if this took 4 guys 3 days, they were not exactly putting themselves out.

[ProDave]

The issue is the quote was 4 men 6 days, but it actually took 4 men only 3 days to do it.

 

So you have paid twice as much for labour?

 

I often say this but seem to be a lonely voice that an hourly rate is better for this sort of job, then you would have only got charged 12 man days not 24.  and why I prefer to price all my jobs on an hourly rate with an estimate of the time it will take.

 

Was it the tradesmen or the customer that wanted it priced on a fixed price?  I always maintain if a customer wants a fixed price, i have to try and think of all the things that could go wrong to make it take longer and price on the fact they will go wrong.  The customer almost always pays more.

[Bitpipe]

9 minutes ago, ProDave said:

The issue is the quote was 4 men 6 days, but it actually took 4 men only 3 days to do it.

 

So you have paid twice as much for labour?

 

I often say this but seem to be a lonely voice that an hourly rate is better for this sort of job, then you would have only got charged 12 man days not 24.  and why I prefer to price all my jobs on an hourly rate with an estimate of the time it will take.

 

Was it the tradesmen or the customer that wanted it priced on a fixed price?  I always maintain if a customer wants a fixed price, i have to try and think of all the things that could go wrong to make it take longer and price on the fact they will go wrong.  The customer almost always pays more.

 

Agree Dave but the hourly / day rate is also tricky as any time estimate is just that.

 

We had a joiner and landscaper on day rates - mostly because the work to be done was somewhat open ended and we were supplying materials. A few times, for each we felt that not very much had been achieved on a given day and that the job was being stretched out a bit. However other times they worked their socks off and got lots done.

 

As the customer it can be hard to understand why going is slow and sometimes awkward to ask without the implicit - 'I think you're taking the pi!$$' vibe.

 

I had to take things in the round and try to establish what would be achieved on a weekly basis, and take stock at the end of the week. Or ask how many days to get X done and then check in mid way to see if they were on target.

 

 

 

 

[joe90]

17 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

we felt that not very much had been achieved on a given day and that the job was being stretched out a bit. However other times they worked their socks off and got lots done.

When I was working I used to warn customers that sometimes it would appear not much has happened as prep work can’t always be seen but on other days much would get  done, but I was working for a fixed price.

[jack]

22 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I often say this but seem to be a lonely voice that an hourly rate is better for this sort of job, then you would have only got charged 12 man days not 24.  and why I prefer to price all my jobs on an hourly rate with an estimate of the time it will take.

 

We repeatedly tried to get people to work on day rates during our build, especially for larger and less predictable jobs, and the vast majority weren't interested. In one case, I suspect the guy underestimated the time it was going to take to put up our larch cladding, and it coloured the rest of our relationship with him (although I didn't realise this at the time).

[Danny68]

I think you need to ask the question was you have with the price ? And are you happy with the finished job ? That is all that matters .

[TonyT]

It was a quote not an estimate.

I would chalk it up to experience and try not to be bitter about it as long as the final product was acceptable.

[curlewhouse]

As regards the day rate/fixed price discussion, a refurb build not far from me was paying day rate and luckily was informed by his neighbours that his day rate builders were clearing off shortly after lunchtime each day! It had gone on for weeks and the poor guy had no idea. It was only when talking to his neighbour about how it was taking much longer than he expected and mentioning the increasing cost that it all came to light. 

[Temp]

Only 3 ton bags of MOT for 39sqm? Is it me or is that a bit light?

 

At 100mm thick that's 3.9 cubic meters. MOT 1 is 1.9 tonnes per cubic meter so 3.9 cubic is over 7 tonnes. Bulk bags of MOT vary from 750-1000kg per bag. Have i made a mistake somewhere?