boiling water tap

[lizzie]

I am looking at boiling water taps for the new kitchen as they seem to be the thing to have but we have awful water here and I always use water from a brita filter jug in my kettle.

 

I am going to put in some sort of water softener to the house but am presuming that will by pass drinking water supply and so boiling water from tap. I will still need the filtered water otherwise the tea will taste awful. 

 

Any suggestions for a suitable tap ir should I save my money and stick with a kettle and brita filter jug. We are a 2 person household so not massive requirements for boiling water for drinks.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Jeremy Harris]

Whether you need to bypass the softened water is debatable, as our Itho Dolce 3 way boiling water tap specifically says in the manual that it should be fed from softened water, and was supplied with a water softener cartridge filter in the kit.

 

We discussed this recently in another thread, a couple of posts starting with this post here, that might be worth a read about the health issues:

Our borehole water is moderately hard, but high in iron, so we have some pretty comprehensive water treatment and filtering ahead of the softener.  I have to say that the softened water makes a lovely cup of tea with the boiling water tap, and in our case the sodium level is so small as to not be anything worth worrying about.  If you live if a very hard water area then it may well be that you end up with an unacceptable level of sodium in the water, but there are ways around that, by using a non-sodium ion exchange softener for the drinking water supply.

Edited February 18, 2017 by JSHarris

[Bitpipe]

We are also in a hard water area and have unfiltered cold to the boiling tap (quooker fusion plus pro vac3 tank) and soft hot. We have a soft cold feed under the sink too that's not connected to anything.

 

Not had any issues yet but expect to need to service the tank soon - they do a free kit. The associated softener was quite expensive so we didn't use.

 

[Bitpipe]

Installation guide for Quooker fusion here.

 

http://www.quooker.co.uk/fileupload/Documentation_UK/installation_guide_vaq_e_uk.pdf

 

It says that any descaling system must not reduce the pH level below 7 or remove all minerals by reverse osmosis as this can be harmful to the tank. I guess this is why ours is not fitted to the soft cold feed which is fed by a classic brine style recharging water softener.

 

Apparently an annual service is required to remove limescale, or use of their bespoke £250 descaling unit! 

[Jeremy Harris]

Conventional ion exchange softeners don't change the pH, nor do they alter the mineral content, they just swap calcium and magnesium ions for somewhat less sodium ions.  I think that Qooker (and Itho, as ours came with a similar warning about pH) are concerned that the water in some areas can have a pH below 7.  Our non-softened water pH is about 7.2 to 7.3 and the softened water is identical.  Same with dissolved solids, the meter readings are identical for water either side of the softener.

 

There are places where the water can be slightly acidic, so have a pH slightly under 7, but I think these areas are relatively rare in the UK, as the water companies artificially "harden" acidic water with lime, or limestone filters. 

[PeterW]

2 hours ago, JSHarris said:

[...] was supplied with a water softener cartridge filter in the kit.

 @JSHarris what sort of filter was provided ..?? was it a siliphos one ..??

[Jeremy Harris]

33 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 @JSHarris what sort of filter was provided ..?? was it a siliphos one ..??

 

No, the filter was a very expensive (for what it was) ion-exchange resin cartridge, which annoyed me a bit, although it was included in the kit price of around £700 for the whole thing, stainless tap, under-plinth 5 litre boiler, pressure relief valve etc.   I tried to buy some replacement cartridges and found they were over £60 each!  That's what prompted me to cut the supplied cartridge in half and find out what was in it.  I was more than a little surprised to find it had around 50 pence worth of ion exchange resin in, the same as in an ion exchange water softener, but pre-charged.

 

Sadly Itho Daalderop seem to have sold the UK marketing to others now, so the unit is marketed in the UK by Franke, as their Minerva (or if it's not, then the Minerva is an exact copy!), and the stainless Itho Dolce I bought can only be purchased (at a very inflated price) from their new Ithouk outlet, unless you want to import one from somewhere else in Europe.

[ryder72]

Quooker recommend use of their  scale reduction filters with their taps in hard water  areas (pretty much all of UK except South-west and Scotland). These are quite  expensive (£245) for what they are and they have started tying the warranty of the tank to the installation of the scale filter.

 

We have supplied the Minerva too and have had nothing but problems and poor customer service (maybe they were bad pieces) but we have given up on the product.

 

In balance we find that only the Quooker or the ISE hot water tanks to be reliable.

[Jeremy Harris]

When Itho Daalderop were selling via UK retailers (which is how I bought our Itho Dolce) their service was very good indeed.  We had an early version of the Dolce stainless tap originally, and after about a year it started to leak on the boiling water side.  I removed the ceramic cassette and it was clear that there was a manufacturing defect; the inlet drilling was right on the edge of the silicone rubber seal area, so the ceramic cassette seal had just folded under slightly at that point, hence the leak.

 

I sent photos to the supplier (Kitchens UK?, I think) and they sent them on to Itho in Holland.  A chap from Itho contacted me very promptly, explained they had changed the design to fix this problem and they were sending me a new tap and fittings under warranty.  The new Dolce tap that arrived is a slightly different design to the original, but is a better design internally and seems very well made and reliable so far.

 

When I tried to find the same tap again I found that Itho seemed to have done a deal with Franke, as the Franke Minerva tap now looks identical to the Itho Dolce tap we now have, with the sole difference externally being that the Franke has their name on the base.  Itho do sell direct in the UK, via an outlet called Ithouk, but their prices are just ridiculous, they want £672 just for the 5 litre boiler, for example, which is close to the amount we paid for the whole 3 way tap, boiler, water softener filter, pressure relief valve, flow adjuster, tundish etc as a kit.

 

I have a feeling that Itho Daalderop make the boiler and Franke make the taps, as Itho seem mainly to be a boiler and water heater company.  Looking around it seems that the original Franke Minerva, the version with the flat handle rather than the round handle, this one:

is still being sold here, and this is the design that has the poor arrangement of inlet drilling on the boiling water side.  The new Itho Dolce tap (the new design that has the drilling moved to the centre, away from the seal) looks different, and has a round bar handle, like this:

 

 

[daiking]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/business-news/quooker-md-lays-down-challenge-12626936#ICID=nsm

 

"Quooker MD urges manufacturers not to hike prices following Brexit vote

Stephen Johnson, of Dutch boiling water tap specialist Quooker, says it is important that manufacturers demonstrate their practical support for the dealer network."

[ryder72]

I think the current version of the Minerva is the improved one. The ones we worked with go back to 2011/12. Franke didnt have a clue about their servicing and I wasnt sure who made them. I havent generally been impressed with Franke service anyways, so we just gave up on the product.

[lizzie]

Thanks all think I am going with the quooker after much debate.

[jack]

1 hour ago, lizzie said:

Thanks all think I am going with the quooker after much debate.

 

Bit late to the party but just to add: we've had a Quooker for just over two years, and it's mostly been pretty good.  The one thing it occasionally does is turns off by itself with some sort of flaw.  You just click the button on top of the unit to reset, and it seems to be fine.  It did it about weekly for the first couple of months, then went away completely, but has now started doing it once every two or three weeks.  Might need a descale - will be contacting the manufacturer for support shortly.

[PeterW]

I saw Stiebel Eltron did one which was interesting but they seem to have paired up with Blanco and my experience of them is less than perfect ..! 

[Ferdinand]

Is there a safety issue with some of these?

 

Today I saw a so called 3 in 1 tap in Wickes reduced from £699 to £399, and they said it was a boiling water tap. I think it was Franke. Interested Peter W? ;-)

 

However, there seemed to be only a single spout, which means that someone not used to one or a child(?) might run boiling water on the hands by mistakes.

 

Can anyone who has one of these clarify?

Edited February 25, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Bitpipe]

Our Quooker fusion is a 3 way tap with one spout. DHW and cold are blended just like a normal tap. There is a collar that needs a 'double click' and press to activate the boiling - this is also aerates (so splutters quite loudly) to minimise risk of burns if you were to pass your hand through it (I have tried it and it works).

[jamiehamy]

I had specced one in our design but have just removed it. I eventually figured that the cost was just not justifiable and that realistically,  it would be lucky ky to get used once a week after the novelty wore off.  

[Jeremy Harris]

10 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

Is there a safety issue with some of these?

 

Today I saw a so called 3 in 1 tap in Wickes reduced from £699 to £399, and they said it was a boiling water tap. I think it was Franke. Interested Peter W? ;-)

 

However, there seemed to be only a single spout, which means that someone not used to one or a child(?) might run boiling water on the hands by mistakes.

 

Can anyone who has one of these clarify?

 

As above, our boiling water tap is really quite hard to operate unintentionally, because it is locked by a button that has to be pressed down and the tap itself has a fairly strong spring keeping it closed that you have to overcome.  Like the Qooker, boiling water from our Itho comes out aerated and I think you'd have to make a conscious effort to try and scald yourself with it, it's not something that would be easy to do accidentally, I think.

 

1 hour ago, jamiehamy said:

I had specced one in our design but have just removed it. I eventually figured that the cost was just not justifiable and that realistically,  it would be lucky ky to get used once a week after the novelty wore off.  

 

All I can say is that we bought a "hot pot" hot water dispenser around 8 or 9 years ago, that holds about 3 or 4 litres at near boiling water, and has a small pump to dispense hot water on demand, either by a mug operated switch behind the spout, or by a push button on top. 

 

We've got used to having near-boiling water on tap, not just for quick cups of tea, but also for cooking.  You can cook some vegetables, and other short cooking time stuff, just by putting them in a pan and covering them with boiling water, then leaving them for a few minutes, which saves using the hob. 

 

Once you've got used to always having boiling water on tap it's quite hard to imagine living without it, but if you've never had it you won't miss it.

Edited February 26, 2017 by JSHarris

[PeterW]

When I looked at them (as a gadget more than an appliance) then I was reminded that we have a very nice and expensive Le Cruset kettle and an induction hob ... 

 

I tend to drink more coffee than tea so my machine is permanently on so I'm not sure I can justify the change yet but if I see a bargain then it may happen ..!

[Bitpipe]

6 hours ago, jamiehamy said:

I had specced one in our design but have just removed it. I eventually figured that the cost was just not justifiable and that realistically,  it would be lucky ky to get used once a week after the novelty wore off.  

 

We use ours all the time, for every cup of tea, coffee - cooking pasta, veg and even cleaning out containers quickly before putting in recycle bin.

 

We binned the old kettle when leaving the caravan and have never looked back  

[jamiehamy]

I would add that we have a Sage coffee machine already which produces hot water for teas very quickly and espressos, so our need is less. 

 

I would agree it's a nice thing to have tho  Our kitchen bill has been bumped up by the appliances to this got the chop 

[Stones]

A boiling tap is something I considered, but I've had too many disappointing 'scummy' cups of Tea visiting houses with boiling taps.  I believe the Quooker is different in that it actually boils (and stores at 110C ?) as opposed to the cheaper taps which only go to 97C.

 

In the end it was a budget decision, having gone for better quality appliances elsewhere in the kitchen.  Like @jamiehamy, I couldn't justify the spend to myself.  It would be a nice thing to have, but I don't mind waiting a minute or so to make a cuppa.

[Jeremy Harris]

The Itho is like the Qooker, too, in that it uses a pressurised boiler that sits at around 105 to 110 deg C.  The pressure is one of the ways they not only get the higher temperature at the tap, but the high level of aeration that reduces the scalding risk.

 

I agree that if you're used to just putting the kettle on, then there's not much reason to go for one, but we've had instant, near-boiling water on tap for around 7 or 8 years now, and have rather got used to it, so for us, being able to get rid of the big "hot pot" that sits on a work surface and needs filling up every couple of days was a big motivation towards fitting an all-in-one kitchen tap that dispenses boiling water.  It also makes very nice, scum-free, tea, perhaps rather too well as I was drinking far too much of the stuff a year or two ago, and can say that it doesn't do a lot for your general well being, when drunk in excess.

[Steptoe]

my BiL sells reasonably high end kitchens, ( I think their cheaper standard kitchen comes in at iro £8.5K + worktops )

and they stopped selling anything but the Quooker as they simply werent in the same quality range.

too many quality complaints about the rest of the stuff apparently.

 

 

 

[lizzie]

45 minutes ago, Steptoe said:

my BiL sells reasonably high end kitchens, ( I think their cheaper standard kitchen comes in at iro £8.5K + worktops )

and they stopped selling anything but the Quooker as they simply werent in the same quality range.

too many quality complaints about the rest of the stuff apparently.

 

 

 

I heard those things from various kitchen people too, it did influence my decision.