Triple Glazing

[nod]

On our first build we were pretty much hamstrung by British Heritage Who insisted on sash windows throughout So triple glazing was never an option 

While we went for the best sash windows on the market they are a long way from being airtight 

This time we will have no such restrictions 

While we are moving into a rural area We will be on a 50 mph lane 

A car every couple of minutes But that could change 

So we intend to have far better sound insulation this time At the front of the house at the very least 

My question to other that are going down this route is

Will Triple glazing make a significant difference to sound or heat retention Or both 

Is it worth treble glazing all Even the large windows and sliders 

Edited March 13, 2021 by nod

[tonyshouse]

It is worth using 3g for sound insulation alone. Need good draught seals that touch properly and no holes, gaps or cracks round or through the frames (and yes can be found on new installs)

 

for reducing heat losses and energy use they work well too, so well that in central and Northern European 3g has become standard and the volume product, dg is more expensive! 

[ProDave]

Yes, very pleased with our Rationel 3G windows.  no problems with draughts or poor seals.

 

But get used to condensation and ice on the outside of your windows, because not enough heat escapes to keep the outside glass temperature above the dew point in certain weather.

 

If noise is an issue then you want MVHR to eliminate the need for trickle vents in the windows or any other vent e.g extract fans, with the MVHR intake and outlet on the opposite side to the road.

[nod]

  On 13/03/2021 at 18:49, ProDave said:

Yes, very pleased with our Rationel 3G windows.  no problems with draughts or poor seals.

 

But get used to condensation and ice on the outside of your windows, because not enough heat escapes to keep the outside glass temperature above the dew point in certain weather.

 

If noise is an issue then you want MVHR to eliminate the need for trickle vents in the windows or any other vent e.g extract fans, with the MVHR intake and outlet on the opposite side to the road.

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Do Rationel do a supply only Dave 

From experience some are the larger companies prefer to supply and fit 

Edited March 13, 2021 by nod

[Thedreamer]

I found there to be not much increase in cost compared to double glazing.

[nod]

These are some we considered first time round Aluminum and double glazed 

If someone could add there numbers as a comparison It would give me a good reference point 

[Bozza]

I’m a +1 for rationel 3G.   Yes they do supply only, certainly mine were, and installed by my main contractor.  I got quotes for downgrading to 2g and it wasnt much of a saving perhaps £400 in total.  So went for 3G & so glad we did.
 

in terms of sound insulation yes they’re very good, I recall they do an acoustic glazing option too but we didn’t go for that as rural.

 

in real life scenario, we had a joiner outside one of the windows yesterday on his circular saw.  You could hear the saw but it was a dull rumble as opposed to what it would normally sound like.  One of our elevations is about 5 metres from a rural road.  You can hear traffic but definitely the 3G reduces the sound.  These are not scientific results but do they eliminate noise? No.  Do they reduce noise? Yes definitely.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Bozza

[Iceverge]

From my research they're the cheapest, biggest improvement to energy savings shortly followed by airtightness and MVHR.  

 

Go for it. We have white uPVC and I'm very happy with them 

 

 

 

 

[Oz07]

Fack me @nod you love to live dangerously don't you

[Oz07]

  On 13/03/2021 at 22:58, Iceverge said:

From my research they're the cheapest, biggest improvement to energy savings shortly followed by airtightness and MVHR.  

 

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Not being pedantic but wouldn't it depend on glazed area? I always understood airtightness to be the best bang for buck?

[tonyshouse]

Draughtproofing is far and away best bang for your buck, insulation and air sealing followed by fabric insulation, windows are nearly last on the list 

[MikeSharp01]

  On 14/03/2021 at 06:09, Oz07 said:

I always understood airtightness to be the best bang for buck?

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If you are talking energy performance then it is but it's also about optimising (maximising perhaps not so much) everything including the glazed area, N-S-E-W etc, because air tightness alone won't work without good insulation and insulation is reduced by poor glazing options. Triple glazing is getting much more common because the innovators & early adopters have bundled in so with early majority starting to join in now the price will drop further thus making it more likely that the late majority and laggards will get aboard as well. By which time other options will be more expensive and so not adopted unless for conservation reasons. When I first took my mobile phone into work in late 1986 my colleagues all laughed at me and said it would never catch on!

[nod]

  On 14/03/2021 at 06:07, Oz07 said:

Fack me @nod you love to live dangerously don't you

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That amused me also 

I’ve never seen that rating before

Bit worrying to think at a certain part of a storm we could be showered with glass  

[dpmiller]

your battery's a bit low...

[nod]

Airtightness is a big part of my business Mostly fireproofing But the same thing 

The fabric of our first build is extremely airtight 

Just the compulsory sash windows that let it down 

 

I put a post on here regarding friends that had emitted trickle vents (no MVR) They have since had there visit from BC and been told it is ok to not have trickle vents if they are able to open the window slightly and lock it in place 

Worth knowing 

[Iceverge]

  On 14/03/2021 at 06:09, Oz07 said:

Not being pedantic but wouldn't it depend on glazed area? I always understood airtightness to be the best bang for buck?

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You're dead right. I had a look last night to see if I was remembering my figures correctly. I wasn't. Airtightness is number 1

[jack]

  On 14/03/2021 at 09:26, nod said:

I put a post on here regarding friends that had emitted trickle vents (no MVR) They have since had there visit from BC and been told it is ok to not have trickle vents if they are able to open the window slightly and lock it in place 

Worth knowing 

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It may be that this particular BCO is giving them a break for whatever reason, but no way would I rely on opening a window for ventilation (and nor would I expect most BCOs to allow it). 

 

No in-room ventilation is even more concerning in a properly airtight house.

 

[nod]

Yep me neither 

 

Bit of background our friends are experienced SBs This is the third one in 30 years

As you say he may have been a bit lenient with this 

They have fallen foul of the DA with hardcore heaped at the front doors 

3 story and no fire doors 

BC has recommended a spray that can be applied to the doors that with make them 30 minutes each side Fire rated 

In not to sure about this 

While it is design and build 

My friend did all the design work 

So builder is reluctant to step up 

Fingers crossed ? 

[joe90]

  On 14/03/2021 at 09:26, nod said:

been told it is ok to not have trickle vents if they are able to open the window slightly and lock it in place 

Worth knowing 

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BCO dependant. I did a renovation  for a couple who wanted to re use a UPV window that was fairly new which had no trickle vents. BCO Spotted it and said I needed to instal one. I found another authority who had it in writing that “night lock ventilation” was sufficient, I emailed it to him and asked him to provide  proof trickle vents were required, he backed down.

[nod]

  On 14/03/2021 at 10:54, joe90 said:

BCO dependant. I did a renovation  for a couple who wanted to re use a UPV window that was fairly new which had no trickle vents. BCO Spotted it and said I needed to instal one. I found another authority who had it in writing that “night lock ventilation” was sufficient, I emailed it to him and asked him to provide  proof trickle vents were required, he backed down.

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No consistency 

 

 

[Oz07]

Window guy I used to use built his own house. Stuck (litterally) the trickles on till it was signed off then whipped them off. 

[nod]

  On 14/03/2021 at 11:03, Oz07 said:

Window guy I used to use built his own house. Stuck (litterally) the trickles on till it was signed off then whipped them off. 

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That what we are tempted to do 

[MikeSharp01]

Not sure the building physics is being understood here - ventilation, any sort, is just that, fresh air in stale air out. Without ventilation the stale air builds up and because quite a lot of what we humans do creates moisture, from perspiring through cooking to showering etc, that will build up as well. Moisture is not good for building fabric but is the stuff of life for mold etc. So while trickle vents, or poor air tightness by another name if you think about it - same for MVHR but then with a conservation purpose, do work at keeping the air fresh they are not dynamic. So cannot cope with changes in air quality as MVHR does through the use of humidity sensors and boost modes, do nothing to filter dust / particulates and because they don't recover any heat they do nothing for energy conservation. If you have a well ventilated house with no trickle vents air tightness cannot be high because the BRs call for so many air changes unless of course the house is non compliant! Air tightness is not a ventilation standard although you are effectively treating it as such without trickle vents. Having said that a UK BR house is allowed 1x20p piece in every square meter of fabric for air tightness, IE not very air tight - imagine driving along in your car with several 20p sized holes at 30mph, a passive house allows 1x5p piece every 5 square meters IE a lot more air tight. (You can see a neat graphic of this on page 5 of this BRE document. https://www.passivhaustrust.org.uk/UserFiles/File/Technical Papers/BRE_Passivhaus_Airtightness_Guide.pdf ) 

[Oz07]

Yes I'm bored. Doesn't look as big a difference as you make it sound

[Oz07]

Just going to put the spade bits in my drill for the car experiment