Ferdinand Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Reading the recent thread about treatment palnts has made me wonder if we are overcomplicating things. We have all sweated blood to reduce our heating bills by perhaps £1000 per year, and cut the concomitant environental impact. Good. But spending £400 or £600 a year to run a treatment plant seems to me to be a backward step, as it is as much as, or more than, mains connection (South West excepted!). As a household we are now on mains drainage, but at our old house we spent 15 years on a septic tank, which was then replaced for 15 years by an Aquatron (ie a whole house soil closet with an inert centrifugal separator - a plastic spiral with a hole in the middle - for Number 1s and Number 2s) . The Aquatron requirement was an initial install, no power, and a visit once a year with a wheelbarrow and shovel to get the compost. From the business end it felt just like the septic tank or mains connection. Is there another race-to-technological-gimmicks going on here - like the ones we have seen in Grand Designs where Sophie and Sebastian use the enviro-savings to install an enviro-cost which is not actually necessary. Just musing. Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Are people opting to choose sewerage systems that are more complex and higher cost than the bare minimum that they can get away with? I've sunk nearly £7k of my £40k total budget into mine, and it wasn't through choice. Ground conditions, usage pattern, and lack of a mains option led me to this expensive solution. I would much rather have spent that money on something else!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 In contrast, my trreatment plant cost about £2K so my "saving" on Crofters system would pay for about £25 years running cost. I estimate £130 pa for electricity, and £150 to desludge every 2 years. So about £200 per year. I have no idea what mains drainage would cost, it's not available here, but mains water is about £250 per year so probably a similar cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I am a firm follower of kiss, ( keep it simple stupid) and others have shown that some of these systems with motors and moving parts deep in the s*** is asking for trouble. I am still shopping fir a system and frankly the simpler the better in my eyes. ( mind you I am a ludite ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Total cost of our drainage and treatment plant, with filter trenches, 600mm inspection chambers and a whole load the contractor said isn't needed but BC expect was £13k if that makes you feel any better. We could have shaved a thousand off in hindsight but not much more - a heck if a lot of money for dealing with a pile if crap! Totally over engineered but hey ho what can you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) Capital cost, including installation, for our treatment plant was around £4,500, roughly split half installation, half the cost of the unit. Running costs (assuming a pump out every two years) should be around £145/year, reducing to around £125/year once I get the new timed pump fitted. The alternative for us was £14k for the main drainage connection, plus another £2k'ish for the pump station and installation, so around £16k for capital cost. Not sure what the yearly cost would be, probably a bit more than the running cost of the treatment plant I expect. Edited February 13, 2017 by JSHarris typo, "use" when I meant "us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) Our Aquatron was perhaps £1500 (in 2000 or so) for the spinner which had to be imported from Scandnavia, then we had to build an Aquatron house (small brick shed) and plumb it in. Then zero running costs. They are now available for a much larger range of sizes. Ferdinand Edited February 13, 2017 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 My treatment plant was around £2300 and the reedbed system another £1200. I gave the local farmer about £200 to dig the holes, so under £4000 in all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 Looking at all these numbers, I am thinking: 1 - Having more space makes a real difference. 2 - Capital for expenditure tradeoffs are probably worth it much of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Space helps, but if your ground conditions are unsuitable, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. I still don't think many people are willingly choosing more expensive or complex solutions. The variation in people's choices just reflects their site conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just came across this. https://septictank.clickfunnels.com/clearfox. Is it as good as they make out?, no good for me as the outlet pipe is 1.6 mtrs below ground level which puts it below our water table ( my biggest problem). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 That's certainly one to look at. Not only would 1.6 metres deep be above our water table, but probably above the level of the burn much of the year. Interesting it seems to use a standard Graf tank (discussed recently?) and the final treatment tank contains worms, also discussed a while back. It seems to use the chimney effect to aerate the water without a mechanical pump. I wonder how that works on a still day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) Also just came across this http://www.wte-ltd.co.uk/asp-sewage_treatment_plants.html. Interesting bedtime reading. Also this http://www.wte-ltd.co.uk/vortex_sewage_treatment_plant.html, makes the vortex a good contester for our site, especially the " being able to discharge to a ditch" which is what we have, not a watercourse. Edited March 2, 2017 by joe90 Add content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) At some point I also need a sewage treatment plant, so keep up the good work. A table showing capital and running costs would be good! Edited March 2, 2017 by Triassic Finger problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 43 minutes ago, joe90 said: Also just came across this http://www.wte-ltd.co.uk/asp-sewage_treatment_plants.html. Interesting bedtime reading. Also this http://www.wte-ltd.co.uk/vortex_sewage_treatment_plant.html, makes the vortex a good contester for our site, especially the " being able to discharge to a ditch" which is what we have, not a watercourse. The Vortex was one that I considered. When I was looking for one, nearly 2 years ago now, the Votex, Conder and Biopure were the three that were best in terms of cleanliness of the effluent. (others may have come to market since so don't assume these are the only "good" ones) I ruled it out because on my wet site it would have required a lot more concrete to encase it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 On 14/02/2017 at 15:11, Ferdinand said: Looking at all these numbers, I am thinking:. (...) And I am thinking you have more courage than I. Turning your loo into a Catherine Wheel. Takes some guts that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 sounds good, and as i'm going to need one in the near future it could be a contender. my only question is, anything which eats something, produces something, so how does the solid waste disappear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readiescards Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Shame the Clearfox is so expensive, double the Graf One 2 Clean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Simplysimon said: sounds good, and as i'm going to need one in the near future it could be a contender. my only question is, anything which eats something, produces something, so how does the solid waste disappear? Worms usually. Reduces volume by 95%. http://www.aquatron.se/how-it-works/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readiescards Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 More upto date link about the Clearfox https://clearfox.com/en/plants/small-sewage-treatment-plant/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 They lied!!?, just contacted the distributor for the vortex as in their blurb it says " can discharge to a ditch" but on further reading the vortex installation manual says "discharge to a watercourse or leachfield" and they confirmed it cannot discharge to a ditch that may be dry in summer. They did however say that I may be able to apply to the EA for a bespoke licence?. I must confess that I fancy creating a wildlife pond in the same spot as the ditch leaves our property/ the outfall enters the ditch so if I used reeds as in a reed bed then it would be even cleaner ?. Anyone ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 You definitely can't discharge to a dry ditch here. It's like pulling teeth just to get a permit to discharge to a flowing watercourse. One of the things they take into consideration is the minimum flow rate in a dry summer. I even made a temporary V notch weir to measure the summer flow rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 @joe90 My sewage treatment plant discharges into a reed bed and BCO was happy. Couldn't find any regulations relating to size required for a particular treatment plant so don't see why your idea shouldn't work. I like the idea of a wildlife pond serving a purpose like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Thanks Peter, just had a word with the EA advise line to say " how do I prove the ditch carries water 24/7" and they do not need proof. My ditch carries water nearly all the time and the EA chap seemed to think as long as building control were satisfied then it won't be a problem, yes I think a reed bed/nature pond/ditch to be an acceptable solution. I think I will contact the BI who has been great so far and see what he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) 23 hours ago, Simplysimon said: sounds good, and as i'm going to need one in the near future it could be a contender. my only question is, anything which eats something, produces something, so how does the solid waste disappear? The non-digestible stuff can't disappear, whether it's eaten by aerobic bacteria or worms, so there will always be some solids build up in any system. The issue is really how long it takes for the sludge build up to cause a problem. Some manufacturers advise optimistic sludge pump out periodicity, like ours, at three years. @PeterStarck had a problem with sludge build up blocking the aeration holes and causing an early pump failure, so my inclination is to either check regularly to see how much sludge is building up, or play safe and de-sludge the system every couple of years. The cost of a pump-out around here is about £120, so not too bad over a couple of years, and still cheaper than mains drainage. Edited March 3, 2017 by JSHarris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now