MrsB Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Hello, just a quick introduction from me. Female with an offer accepted on 2 acres of land with a derelict barn on site with planning permission granted. I have lots to learn to guide me through this process of checking this barn is viable before I exchange contracts. Finding a decent builder to guide me through the process of the rebuild and hoping to gain support for all those decisions along the way within this forum. I'm hoping then to be able to help others with my gained knowledge. Julie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Welcome Julie. Sounds like an exciting project! If you have any specific questions, head for the relevant sub-forum and hopefully we'll be able to help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Hi Julie and welcome to the forum. good luck with the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Morning @MrsB. Welcome. Is this too early to nudge you into thinking about one or two things? I am guessing- please forgive me if I'm wrong. You might be some way away from a main sewer. I read the words '...viable...' above. No foul drainage, no house. Get that issue sorted early on in the development. Have a read of this Please don't confuse my status as Admin with expertise. I am not an expert. But my heart was in my mouth the moment I realised that lack of a foul drain would mean no house for us. Don't worry too much; at this stage finding out the exact details in relation to drainage will useful information in preparation for an eventual exchange of contracts. When there's a hiccup, come back to us and we'll all pile in to help. Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Hi and welcome to the forum, sounds like a fun project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Welcome. We (OK - I) have an embryonic pre-purchase checklist for plots here, to which your comments would be most welcome as you proceed: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) Welcome MrsB Potentially an interesting build. Are the pre-commencement conditions discharged, and if not do you know the costs for achieving this? As it's a Change of Use from Agricultural there's likely a contamination condition, which may be simple to discharge, unless the site walk-over high lights any contamination risks and then it could start to get costly. How about CIL? Has the local council signed up for the Community Infrastructure Levy, and if so who's responsible for paying it, you or the seller. The Barn may be exempt if it has been used for its lawful purpose for at least 6 months in the last 3 years, but this needs to be understood. If not you may be able to get self-builders exemption, there's a recent post on the forum that links to all the rules. With regards being structurally viable, part of the planning application will likely have included a structural engineers report to confirm this. Most Councils wouldn't allow a Change of Use on a Barn that wasn't structurally capable of the conversion. But, this will have been commissioned by the person that submitted the planning application so may be a little biased. Edited February 8, 2017 by IanR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 hour ago, recoveringacademic said: When there's a hiccup, come back to us and we'll all pile in to help. Pretty much sums up Build hub quite nicely. . Welcome aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Hi and welcome to the forum. Another one here advising to get a drainage solution agreed first. This caused us several weeks of worry when building control rejected what I thought wa a workable drainage system, and for several weeks we had no solution = no building warrant, until a compromise was agreed. Is it a listed barn? If not, a complete new build (probably keeping the look and feel of the original barn) would probably be the better option? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsB Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 Thank you all for a terrific and speedy welcome. Advice coming in thick and fast so I'm going to sit and read through your comments and act or respond accordingly. We do have planning permission with the drainage being taken care of by a bio mass system. Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) Another vote for getting the drainage sorted before anything else! Before we made an offer on our plot I checked the situation with foul drainage and a water supply. The cheapest mains drainage solution was £14.5k to get the pipe up the lane and connected to the main drain, plus another £1.5k for a pump station and all the associated work on site. When I enquired about a treatment plant the initial answer was a very firm "no" from the Environment Agency, because of the soil being clay. The planners couldn't care less, and had granted a previous planning application when there was no affordable means of getting a drainage scheme on site! We bought the plot for a much reduced price, knowing we'd have to spend a lot to get water and drainage sorted, and I managed to persuade the Environment Agency to allow us to have a treatment plant and grant a licence to discharge it into the stream that runs alongside the plot. That saved a fair bit, as fully installed, with all the on-site drainage pipe, I think the cost came to around £4k, Edited February 8, 2017 by JSHarris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnW Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Welcome @MrsB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsB Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 hours ago, ProDave said: Hi and welcome to the forum. Another one here advising to get a drainage solution agreed first. This caused us several weeks of worry when building control rejected what I thought wa a workable drainage system, and for several weeks we had no solution = no building warrant, until a compromise was agreed. Is it a listed barn? If not, a complete new build (probably keeping the look and feel of the original barn) would probably be the better option? I'll look into the drainage issues next but couldn't help but pick up on your comment about your suggestion of a complete new build @ProDave. The barn is not listed but I was unaware that its possible to do that, I'm really new to all of this, I'm really keen on the location and size of this plot and as a newbie to all of this would feel less anxious with a new build with a similar look. Do you know where I would be able to start finding out if I could please? Much conflicting advise from builders/architects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I presume the existing planning is for conversion of the existing barn? To replace it with a new build would require a new planning application. If the barn is not listed and the new build is a similar footprint and design to the barn, then the chances of getting planning are probably good. I know someone up here who bought a stone barn for conversion, but found the existing structure was in poor condition so he got planning to replace it with new following the same outline. He built with timber frame and clad the outside in the original stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) If your Planning is for a "Change of Use", or "Conversion" then that won't allow a knock-down and rebuild. Councils will often monitor how much of the original building will still be present in the converted building. The reason for this is that in general agricultural buildings are in a rural setting and outside defined settlements, so the planning policy will be against development. However, there is a contradicting policy that allows the re-use of redundant agricultural buildings, when they are suitable for conversion, deemed to be in a "sustainable" location, and there development will not be over-bearing on the rural setting. If the planning has been granted for the re-use of a redundant building, you can't then knock it down and rebuild. So, it depends on what you have planning for. Edited February 8, 2017 by IanR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 @MrsB. Read. Network. Read. Worry. Read some more. Go down the pub - forget Rinse Repeat. Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsB Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 34 minutes ago, IanR said: If your Planning is for a "Change of Use", or "Conversion" then that won't allow a knock-down and rebuild. Councils will often monitor how much of the original building will still be present in the converted building. The reason for this is that in general agricultural buildings are in a rural setting and outside defined settlements, so the planning policy will be against development. However, there is a contradicting policy that allows the re-use of redundant agricultural buildings, when they are suitable for conversion, deemed to be in a "sustainable" location, and their development will not be over-bearing on rural setting. If the planning has been granted for the re-use of a redundant building, you can't then knock it down and rebuild. So, it depends on what you have planning for. Thank you for the insight into that issue Ian. The site has permission for Demolition of existing dwelling and construction of a replacement dwelling and erection of a detached double garage and the conversion of existing barn and part adjoining out-buildings into one dwelling @IanR. So the 2 acre plot will have 1 new build and one conversion, I hope that makes sense. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsB Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, recoveringacademic said: @MrsB. Read. Network. Read. Worry. Read some more. Go down the pub - forget Rinse Repeat. Ian True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 5 hours ago, recoveringacademic said: I am guessing- please forgive me if I'm wrong. You might be some way away from a main sewer. I read the words '...viable...' above. No foul drainage, no house. Get that issue sorted early on in the development. Have a read of this Or watch last evenings 'building the dream' where a £5K budget for services ended up costing north of £40K! PS Welcome to the ultimate social network where plumbing gets the most attention and off topic non building is the second most important thing we chew the fat over. Although having said that there isn't much about building that is not covered here one way or another. Two three simple rules: To get an answer you have to ask a question - so keep it tight if you really want an answer as floating idea can cause responses to spiral all over the place The mind is like a parachute it is only useful when its open - so be prepared for the answers to be somewhat out of the box! You don't have to be mad to self build but it helps - the journey is hard, sometimes frustrating, always feels expensive and mostly very rewarding. Good luck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, MrsB said: So the 2 acre plot will have 1 new build and one conversion, I hope that makes sense. J It does, and if you plan to do both builds yourself you have more to think about regards getting them both CIL exempt, recovering VAT and mitigating Capital Gain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: Or watch last evenings 'building the dream' where a £5K budget for services ended up costing north of £40K! PS Welcome to the ultimate social network where plumbing gets the most attention and off topic non building is the second most important thing we chew the fat over. Although having said that there isn't much about building that is not covered here one way or another. Two three simple rules: To get an answer you have to ask a question - so keep it tight if you really want an answer as floating idea can cause responses to spiral all over the place The mind is like a parachute it is only useful when its open - so be prepared for the answers to be somewhat out of the box! You don't have to be mad to self build but it helps - the journey is hard, sometimes frustrating, always feels expensive and mostly very rewarding. Good luck Off-topic? Us? An outrageous slander ! @MrsB The further thing I would say is be prepared to take a lot of time (as in elapsed time) - if you are going the "build two and sell one" route, there are a lot pf wrinkles around developer or not, tax efficiency and so on. Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le-cerveau Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 So, if you have the time and inclination, build one, move in, then build the other. Ensuring the one you want to live in is the second one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsB Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 I'm only buying one property, my son is buying the other. We have just put in an offer for the plot together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, MrsB said: We have just put in an offer for the plot together. That makes things much simpler! Edited February 8, 2017 by IanR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 hour ago, MrsB said: I'm only buying one property, my son is buying the other. We have just put in an offer for the plot together. It would probably be wise when purchasing the plot(s) to get the title split into two at that time so you each buy half the total area (or however you wish to split the plot) since you will be employing solicitors, so there is no confusion that you are both self builders each building one house for yourself on your own plot. The fact you are related and the plots are next door is then irrelevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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