nubbins Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Hi All, I have unfortunately made an error in missing the SAP calculations until after the house has been built. I have had someone do the calculations now and he has input all the data only to be told its a fail (Gas boiler, tank, underfloor heating etc). From the conversation i have just had with him was the SAP can pass with a gas boiler but things need to be planned properly from the start of the build. He said the easiest way around it would be a couple of PV panels on the roof (his words) or a air source heat pump which would be messy. Does this sound correct and if so does anyone have a ball park figure on the total cost, he is sending me the specs shortly but I need to get this signed off as I am running on fumes :o(. Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Bad luck, that must be very stressful. There are cheap solar panels around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Have you been able to see the calculation itself? Score etc? You can get free s/w (FSAP from Stroma) where you can play with the inputs and see what's what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADLIan Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 This late in the process solar pv will be the simple, cost effective solution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 This would not happen in Scotland, your Design SAP would have to pass before the building warrant is issued. Agreed some PV to sort it will be a useful addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, ADLIan said: This late in the process solar pv will be the simple, cost effective solution. do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Do you have the option of adding flue gas heat recovery on your boiler? That would give you a few points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_L Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 @nubbins Waste water heat recovery (WWHR) fitted to all showers could get you across the line if the gap is only a few points. https://recoupwwhrs.co.uk/ https://showersave.com/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Cant seem to edit my post, but my design SAP went from a 71 to 85 by adding solar PV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nubbins Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nubbins Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedreamer Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 PV panels would bump up the score. If I am being honest I don't like when they plonked onto a roof, would consider putting them on a shed or similar structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nubbins Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 Ok thanks. Looks like 2 PV panels as he and you have recommended, any idea on a ballpark figure? How would the process work from here, do I get a guy to fit them, he gives me some sort of cert or document and then I go back to SAP guy and say its done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedreamer Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, A_L said: @nubbins Waste water heat recovery (WWHR) fitted to all showers could get you across the line if the gap is only a few points. https://recoupwwhrs.co.uk/ https://showersave.com/ I looked at these but are you not paying for points? I might be tempted if my layout was that my showers were close to my to the hotwater tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 you're in a bit of a sticky situation there! the things like waste water heat recovery are very useful to get a bump on the SAP but not when you're at completion so you're fairly limited to bolt on solutions. PV is probably the most straight forward solution as it doesn't need much else - the other thing that may bump you up a little is to look at having a woodburner for secondary heating (if it suits your house/local plan etc) Other than those two I can't see much opportunity for a reduction. (on one project we did end up swapping out some double glazed units for higher performing centre glass to get it over the line after the builder changed the spec of glass for a "cost saving" and didn't ask if it was ok to do!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 20 hours ago, nubbins said: Ok thanks. Looks like 2 PV panels as he and you have recommended, any idea on a ballpark figure? How would the process work from here, do I get a guy to fit them, he gives me some sort of cert or document and then I go back to SAP guy and say its done? Don't know how feasible this is, but in this situation has anyone just fitted a couple of panels temporarily to get the SAP rating and then had them removed. Does anybody check that they are connected. Relatively easy to fit if you have a single storey extension roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: Don't know how feasible this is, but in this situation has anyone just fitted a couple of panels temporarily to get the SAP rating and then had them removed. Does anybody check that they are connected. Relatively easy to fit if you have a single storey extension roof. But why would you want to remove them? If you buy carefully I reckon the self use of any electricity generated will paqy back the costs in about 6 years, so not only will you have got your SAP pass for not a lot of money, you will have lower electricity bills for the forseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Just now, ProDave said: But why would you want to remove them? If you didn't want the cost of installing a complete system and you didn't like the look of on roof panels and it was only being done to improve the SAP rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, PeterStarck said: If you didn't want the cost of installing a complete system and you didn't like the look of on roof panels and it was only being done to improve the SAP rating. But you'd have the cost of commissioning and decommissioning a solar install and then sell them on for less than you bought them for, doesn't really seem like money well spent there - they would have to be included in your completion cert and as built epc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, the_r_sole said: But you'd have the cost of commissioning and decommissioning a solar install and then sell them on for less than you bought them for, doesn't really seem like money well spent there - they would have to be included in your completion cert and as built epc So the answer to my question is, no, because they would have to be included in the completion certificate and signed off by an electrician. The SAP and EPC is just a desk exercise but it may show up if you sell the house, but then is there anything to prevent someone removing PV panels if they don't, for instance, like the look of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: So the answer to my question is, no, because they would have to be included in the completion certificate and signed off by an electrician. The SAP and EPC is just a desk exercise but it may show up if you sell the house, but then is there anything to prevent someone removing PV panels if they don't, for instance, like the look of them. If you go to sell a house and the EPC says there are solar panels, you can guarantee someone will ask about the invisible solar panels... But there's nothing to stop you doing anything after you get your completion certificate, you could take out all your windows and doors and burn rope in your woodburner all day if you so wish, the completion certificate is only confirmation of the build being completed at the time of issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 How did the airtightness test go? If an improvement would make a difference you could go round with some tape and do a retest? Extractors, boiler flues, trickle vents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nubbins Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 hours ago, PeterStarck said: So the answer to my question is, no, because they would have to be included in the completion certificate and signed off by an electrician. The SAP and EPC is just a desk exercise but it may show up if you sell the house, but then is there anything to prevent someone removing PV panels if they don't, for instance, like the look of them. Interesting you say this, so as it stands building has not yet signed off, need SAP pass (with an air permability test first) The SAP calc as it stands has been frozen as failed and not fully submitted (I think) SAP guy has said he has done different calcs on air permability of 5 and 2 X 300 panels and that will pass SAP guy has said let him know air perm score and arrange for panels to be fitted then he will submitt straight away with the details (Panels, inverter?). I am guessing he might want to see a quote or something with a future date and what exactly would be fitted. My thinking is get the air test done, get a quote for a 2 panel 600w installation, show him that and get the SAP passed and then onto building control for their final inspection. Would BC pick up on no panels and not sign off at that point, they could of course be installed straight away if it caused problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nubbins Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Mr Punter said: How did the airtightness test go? If an improvement would make a difference you could go round with some tape and do a retest? Extractors, boiler flues, trickle vents? Just arranging that now, SAP guy says even the best possible score (not sure what that is) would not make it a pass. It think its panels or air source pump which sounds horrible with everything pretty much finished and installed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 What have you so much against a few PV panels? If you don't like them on the house roof then put them on a shed roof or ground mount them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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