British Gas Safety Check

[Onoff]

Just had the annual Gas Safety Check at a rental property. Just recently in fact rented it out again and in getting it ready had BG in ref the boiler where they did some repairs etc all under our landlords package with them.

 

Then this year we get told we have an appliance that isn't safe because the flue can't be inspected:

 

 

 

It goes up in an airing cupboard and out through an inaccessible roof over the bathroom extension

 

 

So we've rung them to be told that since 2013 if they can't see something thay can't pass it. This despite the annual chacks up until now haven't flagged it as an issue. The guy went on that it was likely done by someone fresh out of college and a more experienced fitter wouldn't have flagged and thus passed it. We're quite welcome to find a 3rd party who will pass it and their cert will void the BG one!

 

The report says he turned it off...he didn't.

 

They made the suggestion we get a builder in to fit an access hatch, thereafter there'll be a £79 revisit charge.

 

At a bit of a loss at the mo.

 

Any suggestions?

 

[Dave Jones]

had same problem, flue ran through another flat (ceiling) to the outside wall. no  possible to put a hatch in it. Did away wityh gas and put immersion heater and a nightstore in. The 32 a month for British gas was all adding up anyway.

[Oz07]

8 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Just had the annual Gas Safety Check at a rental property. Just recently in fact rented it out again and in getting it ready had BG in ref the boiler where they did some repairs etc all under our landlords package with them.

 

Then this year we get told we have an appliance that isn't safe because the flue can't be inspected:

 

 

 

It goes up in an airing cupboard and out through an inaccessible roof over the bathroom extension

 

 

So we've rung them to be told that since 2013 if they can't see something thay can't pass it. This despite the annual chacks up until now haven't flagged it as an issue. The guy went on that it was likely done by someone fresh out of college and a more experienced fitter wouldn't have flagged and thus passed it. We're quite welcome to find a 3rd party who will pass it and their cert will void the BG one!

 

The report says he turned it off...he didn't.

 

They made the suggestion we get a builder in to fit an access hatch, thereafter there'll be a £79 revisit charge.

 

At a bit of a loss at the mo.

 

Any suggestions?

 

7 years of gas safety refund for a start

[joe90]

I have a “tame” gas guy to do our inspections, he is old school and applies common sense, I just hope he does not retire, otherwise I might just flog the rental.

[Onoff]

44 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

7 years of gas safety refund for a start

 

Best suggestion so far! ?

 

Going to get my barrister big brother to check my draft letter of complaint to them. 

 

There's a nom 600x600 ceiling where the pipes go up in the airing cupboard into that roof. I'm guessing pipes to the bathroom will run across it there. Seems a bit daft putting a hatch up into what is a draughty, cold roof thus surely well ventilated? Would have thought there's more risk of fumes coming through the hatch unless they have seals of some sort. Or maybe BG would prefer an access hatch through into the kid's bedroom?

 

Found a bit here:

 

https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/help-and-advice/gas-safety-in-the-home/get-your-appliances-checked/flues-in-voids/flues-in-voids-faqs/

 

So BG should have told us about hatches for the the last 7 years we've had the property! Really aggrieved about that. 

 

I've no issue going and fitting a hatch  but it's the whole hassle thing for me and the in particular the tenants. The Covid issue too. I'll get on it asap whatever.

 

Some sort of a surface mount hatch maybe? With gas seals, might be a tall order?

 

BG overall are w***ers imho. 

[ProDave]

Unfortunately the BG man is right, they are supposed to inspect the flue and if the flue is inaccessible they can't pass it.  the fact they have incorrectly passed it for 7 years won't hold much weight with the refusal now.

 

So you are going to have to cut that hatch I am afraid.

[Onoff]

Just now, ProDave said:

Unfortunately the BG man is right, they are supposed to inspect the flue and if the flue is inaccessible they can't pass it.  the fact they have incorrectly passed it for 7 years won't hold much weight with the refusal now.

 

So you are going to have to cut that hatch I am afraid.

 

Absolutely no issue doing it and will. Looking now for a hatch. It'll mean though a mid lockdown visit to the tenant to measure, return to fit if I can't do it there and then and then BG returning to check. Literally before the tenants moved in I had BG in I think 3 times. No mention of hatch being needed. 

[Gav_P]

Shocking that it’s been passed every year. Imagine if there is a joint in the flue in the loft which over time has developed a leak... that’s a potential manslaughter case for you. ☹️

[Onoff]

14 minutes ago, Gav_P said:

Shocking that it’s been passed every year. Imagine if there is a joint in the flue in the loft which over time has developed a leak... that’s a potential manslaughter case for you. ☹️

 

Indeed. The saving grace I guess being the draughty roof void. Wrong though that he says on his report turned off but seemingly didn't. Or did the tenant turn it back on?

 

I have to wonder why I pay BG for their top service if multiple engineers haven't picked up on this. 

 

Just messaged the tenant explaining & saying happy to go over and measure up asap.

[Gav_P]

19 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Indeed. The saving grace I guess being the draughty roof void. Wrong though that he says on his report turned off but seemingly didn't. Or did the tenant turn it back on?

I think they have to ‘disable’ it if it’s unsafe, to make sure tenants can’t just turn it back on again as soon as they have left. ... I think there’s some labelling they are supposed to do like ‘condemned’. 
 

May be worth a quick investigation as to the correct practice is and add it to your complaint. 
 

I’ll ask my F-I-L who is a gas engineer.  

[Gav_P]

Probably worth calling Gas Safe to get confirmation of when the regs came in for inspecting the flue, but it’s been in place for longer that BG have been inspecting it. They can give you advice too. 
 

If they deemed it ‘at risk’ due to not being able to inspect the flue, then then should have isolated the gas supply, so it couldn’t fire up until turned back on by qualified engineer. 
 

Is it a condensing boiler? Do you have the gas analysis numbers from the flue gas test? And the o2 test? (This should be 20.9). 
 

 

There could be a ‘get out of jail free’ card for them if they have evidence that there are no joints in the flue (probably needs to be under 1.1m for this to be possible). 
 

Realistically they have cocked up big time and will want to keep this quiet... can you imagine if you open up the loft and ‘happen to find’ the flue joints have separated? I’m sure that wouldn’t look good for BG if it ended up in the press. 

[Onoff]

Tenant has OK'd it for me to go over Sunday. Not ideal as I'd rather have had it (the hatch) measured and ordered and maybe been fitting it then but hey ho. 

[PeterW]

Manthorpe do a range of plasterboard hatches - think they go all the way to 450 square which is plenty large enough to get through ... 

Edited November 26, 2020 by PeterW
Right manufacturer this time ..!!

[Onoff]

14 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Manrose do a range of plasterboard hatches - think they go all the way to 450 square which is plenty large enough to get through ... 

 

Thanks, I think you might mean Manthorpe?

 

Going over Sunday. Just bought one of those inspection cameras so I can poke it up into the void hopefully and see what's up there in the way of pipes/cables/joists. Sod's Law it won't be striaghtforward!

[PeterW]

@Onoff here you go - if the BG engineer can’t fit then tell him to lay off the morning bacon cobs ..

 

https://www.loftshop.co.uk/products/accessories/loft-hatch-door/

[Onoff]

Just now, PeterW said:

@Onoff here you go - if the BG engineer can’t fit then tell him to lay off the morning bacon cobs ..

 

https://www.loftshop.co.uk/products/accessories/loft-hatch-door/

 

I just get an "error processing that link"?

[PeterW]

Try this

 

Using some weird content management system from the looks of it

[Nickfromwales]

B&Q sell them if you just want a small hatch, but prob better with something cob-boy can get his anvil sized head up and into. 

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Try this

 

Using some weird content management system from the looks of it

 

That works, thanks.Tbh I can't imagine the ceiling it's going into is fire rated pb.

[Mr Punter]

6 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

That works, thanks.Tbh I can't imagine the ceiling it's going into is fire rated pb.

 

 

Why would that matter?  They just need to be able to inspect the flue.

[Onoff]

19 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

 

 

Why would that matter?  They just need to be able to inspect the flue.

 

The hatch Peter linked to is fire rated. On the Manthorpe site it says it must be installed in fire rated pb.

 

Still think it a bit mad cutting into a "sealed" pb ceiling and installing a hatch unless the hatch itself is gas tight. That surely would be better that fire rated. The whole reason for inspecting the flue as I undestand is to check the condition to guard against fume leakage yet a lot of the cheap inspection hatches I bet are so loose fitting they're more likely to let fumes through into the room?

 

Tempted to go over with some card and make a paper template of the ceiling. Then cut a bit of pink pb to suits and overboard. I wouldn't normally but someone previous has made a hash with fiire rated (?) foam where pipes goes up into the loft area. Then cut the hatch into the pink pb on the deck, stick it up and use the pre cut hole as a guide to cut the original board. The hatch projects 33mm up. 2 layers of pb would take care of 24mm. Just thinking there might be pipes close, above. Won't know until I survey it.

 

 

Probably over complicating things as usual!

Edited November 26, 2020 by Onoff

[Mr Punter]

I have just fitted the cheapo plastic ones, although it was where the flue was boxed in normal MDF, so no fire rating needed.

[Gav_P]

8 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

I have just fitted the cheapo plastic ones, although it was where the flue was boxed in normal MDF, so no fire rating needed.

That’s exactly what I did.

[Pocster]

@Onoff definitely due the gas check fee’s for all the years they passed it when they should not . Will more than make up the cost of installing a hatch . I’d write to them first . Once they BS you - I’d start a ccj . I like ccj’s and high court enforcement procedure . I imagine they will buckle long before that as they effectively have been passing a gas install they should not .

As others have said land lord gas safety check ‘ professionals’ range from slack to pedantically anal . Threat of ccj ! Your tenants were at risk . You were worried sick . Potentially you ‘broke’ the law by renting an unsafe property - ummmmm !

The council are on your back aren’t they ? Didn’t you call them ? . Local paper are interested in your ‘Dodgy gas checker’ story etc. etc. Make them f eckibg pay ! ? 

[Mr Punter]

It is worth bearing in mind that the roof does not normally require fire resistance.