revelation Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 We have taken our property back to brick to do some major renovation works. We are way over budget and we are getting closer to the plaster boarding stage. We know its not commonly done in the UK but is in America, where the plasterboards are fixed into place then the screws and joints are taped and filled. Then sanded down, then it is all painted. Are there any disadvantages to do this? as this is likely to save us a considerable amount of time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 No real disadvantages Labour slightly cheaper Materials quite a bit more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I taped and jointed my last house and I will be doing the same on this one, however I’m not sure how much money if any this will save you, you won’t need to have the walls wet plastered, but you will need a good team to tape a join it, you would need a good set of skills to do it yourself. I would price up both options. Do a list of costs for both the options and post it up so we can see if you’ve missed anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 By good luck we found a plasterer at the right time- they're like hens' teeth up here- and he had our little cottage done in five days, about £900. That was a plaster skim over plasterboard. I then painted the walls/ceiling myself which helped keep the budget in check and the finish was superb. Every other house I've had has been a taped and filled finish- it's pretty much the standard in Scotland. And those houses have all needed wallpaper on every surface, to hide the imperfections. Maybe a pro can get tape and fill good enough to paint over the top, but in my experience you always see the transition from filler to the plasterboard surface, no matter of sanding will make that go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I've done both taping and filling and plaster finish, and I like both. Taping and filling is definitely far more messy though when you sand the filler, if you go down this route, get a box fan and face it out of an open window on full blast, will help a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revelation Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 7 hours ago, nod said: No real disadvantages Labour slightly cheaper Materials quite a bit more Others have said you will probably see some of the imperfections in the finish. If its likely to only be a small difference I may well go down the skimming route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revelation Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 7 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: I taped and jointed my last house and I will be doing the same on this one, however I’m not sure how much money if any this will save you, you won’t need to have the walls wet plastered, but you will need a good team to tape a join it, you would need a good set of skills to do it yourself. I would price up both options. Do a list of costs for both the options and post it up so we can see if you’ve missed anything. I assumed it would be a fair bit cheaper, but if as you've suggested it may not be much cheaper at all. As if the difference in price is a few hundred pound I think I would prefer to go for skimming as it will add that extra layer of protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 2 hours ago, revelation said: Others have said you will probably see some of the imperfections in the finish. If its likely to only be a small difference I may well go down the skimming route. I employ two tapers and numerous plasters My wife and myself did most of the building work on our house I chose to skim ours out myself rather than tape it Taping is ok if it is done correctly But Skimming is a better finish Picture is the 8 floor staircase I taped over lockdown Due to lack of multi finish The client rejected it due to it not being as durable as Skimming Four days wasted We had to spend nearly a week over skimming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revelation Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 6 hours ago, nod said: I employ two tapers and numerous plasters My wife and myself did most of the building work on our house I chose to skim ours out myself rather than tape it Taping is ok if it is done correctly But Skimming is a better finish Picture is the 8 floor staircase I taped over lockdown Due to lack of multi finish The client rejected it due to it not being as durable as Skimming Four days wasted We had to spend nearly a week over skimming In your experience is there a significant enough cost saving to go down the taping route. Ours is a decent sized 4 bed semi, and if skimming gives a better finish and is more durable water resistant etc... And the cost difference is only 10% or so, then its a no brainer for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 6 hours ago, revelation said: In your experience is there a significant enough cost saving to go down the taping route. Ours is a decent sized 4 bed semi, and if skimming gives a better finish and is more durable water resistant etc... And the cost difference is only 10% or so, then its a no brainer for me. Short answer is NO If you can find a decent taper Not just a plasterer that doesn’t a bit You will find the materials are quite a bit more expensive than multi finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 For those who have done tape and fill, did you get an acceptable final finish just using paint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 51 minutes ago, Crofter said: For those who have done tape and fill, did you get an acceptable final finish just using paint? Yes, I see this misconception all the time, and it bugs me a bit, if you had a poor finish then it was down to not being done to a good standard and not following correct procedures, English style boarding is not good for taping, boards are too small, butt joins everywhere, poor cutting around obstacles. You dont build a $2000000 house in America and end up with a poor finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyP Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I've always thought that for a given wall or ceiling board, a skim adds 3.5mm to 5mm of gypsum increasing both sound deadening and I would also think fire performance. Becuase this site applied finish can't be quality controlled by the manufacturer, I'm assuming they dont give performance data (or maybe they dont give data becasue my idea is nonsense ? ). But I would think side-by-side, a 12.5mm boarded partition wall with a skim either side would have approx 8mm or more gypsum than the same taped and jointed and would perform better in terms of both sound transmission and fire resistance. This is just my own speculaton, I have no data to prove it ? Skimming is a more durable finish IMO but the aesthetics of skim or taping will depend on availability of skilled trades to perform either. Having watched an office fitting crew at work some years ago, I saw that taping and jointing to a high standard was skilled work, they were fast but very attentive to detail and once painted you couldn't so much as see a joint or seam. I suspect that DIY would result in a lot of sanding and it may be very time consuming. Ofcourse another consideration is that skimming is not really something most folk would try DIY (give it a go, it's fun, but don't wear your best shoes). I did a plastering course many years ago as had heaps of plastering to do in a renovation and it was our first house (and we couldnt afford a plasterer). I can skim pretty well now but cant cover anyhting like the area a pro would cover in a day so I'm using a local plasterer on my renovation and extension/loft conversion this time around, with me doing the odd bit as needed. possibly relevent to the original post, if wet plastering solid walls then a basecoat is needed. this is a different feather in the plasterer's cap and some plasterers don't do it much now as on large sites it is always dot and dabbed boards (to hide the cracks that form in the blockwork and becuase it is fast) so the art of floating and setting a wall is slowly being lost. The postive to float and set is making the wall air tight with a nice coat of backing plaster and not creating an air space for convection and draughts behind dabbed boards where air leaks through the mortar joints or cracks in the external wall. Peronsally I wouldn't dot and dab ever, and definitely would not on on external walls of a period house. Dot and dabbed walls are also a pain to fix things into. Float and set is an art to get a decent flat finish in the basecoat, especially over a rough or variable background like old brickwork. The block or bricks also need copious priming with a dilute PVA to kill the suction and avoid the plaster drying too fast. It's then two coat skimmed to a finish. DIY approach to float and set is to set battens on the wall of suitable thickness (about 12mm) to create 600mm wide bays and fill with basecoat and rule off against battens with a feather edge, the take battens down and fill the batten voids, works well but is again time consuming and pro would smile watching you spend all morning doing something that would have taken them 20minutes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 10 hours ago, revelation said: In your experience is there a significant enough cost saving to go down the taping route. Ours is a decent sized 4 bed semi, and if skimming gives a better finish and is more durable water resistant etc... And the cost difference is only 10% or so, then its a no brainer for me. Short answer is NO If you can find a decent taper Not just a plasterer that doesn’t a bit You will find the materials are quite a bit more expensive than multi finish You can get a decent finish with Tape But you do need to seal it when it’s all sanded down We spend about half an hour spraying the sealer on BUT the sealer is fifty quid a bucket 3 buckets on a standard 4 bed house Think the issue here is cost It’s no cheaper to tape Possibly slightly quicker in hot weather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJNewton Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: English style boarding is not good for taping, boards are too small, butt joins everywhere [...] I've always wondered what happens with butt joints when taping... With tapered edge you've obviously got a valley within which to sink the tape and filler but with butt joints do you always have some amount of 'bump' no matter how careful you are with featheredging to way beyond the join? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Taping is the standard in Scotland. My in-laws had their extension taped and last year fully rewired and replastered (with skim) the original part of their house. Costs comparable and there's no discernible difference - the only imperfections I can see are a couple of areas where the (DIY) paintwork has been a bit slapdash in harder to reach areas off the alley tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, MJNewton said: I've always wondered what happens with butt joints when taping... With tapered edge you've obviously got a valley within which to sink the tape and filler but with butt joints do you always have some amount of 'bump' no matter how careful you are with featheredging to way beyond the join? My other place was boarded with sheets that went from wall to wall no butt joins so a 4.7m long wall had a 4.8m sheet used, fitted across the wall so one tapered join at 1200 high. I used boards on my ceiling that where 1200x 6000 England is just not set up for this style of boarding. I think i had 3 butt joins in the whole house, you can buy a butt joining strip in America, it is a piece of OSB that you screw on a butt join, it is tapered so it bends the board inwards to allow jointing compound to fit in the recess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 200274 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) Following up on this thread, I’m in the of process of taping my place in favour of not plastering, I had my loft conversion plastered and that came in at £2k. Every room in my house needs doing including my new extension and quotes have come in excess of £12-13k (labour only) this meant I would do the boarding (house is 3,500 sq ft). So me doing the boarding and taping is saving me a lot of money (mainly labour costs) and I just doing room by room as I’m working through my renovation - time wise it’s not saving me money! Fortunately I have a good hand at doing this so I’m not worried about the quality of finish. The only thing I don’t like about taping and jointing is once finished the boards dent easier than a skimmed finish - for example you can easily press a dent with your finger nail on a standard board, but maybe less so on pink or blue board, but either way a slight butt of something can leave a dent easier than a wall that was plastered. When I was a kid I grew up in the states (California) everything was dry walled however I never remembered seeing smooth finished walls in the homes we lived in. As I recall the walls and ceilings had a slight rough textured finish which reminds of the scrape finish of my krend. I’m guessing they must have applied some sort of plaster type paint that one rolls on to the drywall to protect it (ironically as skimming would do). Edited February 7, 2021 by Alex 200274 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Look up level 5 finish, you can skim the whole board with the product you do the joints with, spray or roller it on and finish with a wide skimming blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperJohnG Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 I'm just about to make a decision on this but get very conflicting reports. Saying that taping and filling around £6.50m2. Approx £15m2 for plastering. I'm gonna get prices for both but the joiner( whom I trust very much) gave me the rough prices and a contact who is excellent that does the taping and filling. Scotland so taping and filling is the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 13 hours ago, SuperJohnG said: I'm just about to make a decision on this but get very conflicting reports. Saying that taping and filling around £6.50m2. Approx £15m2 for plastering. I'm gonna get prices for both but the joiner( whom I trust very much) gave me the rough prices and a contact who is excellent that does the taping and filling. Scotland so taping and filling is the norm. Welcome to pass on details of any recommended tape and filler! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperJohnG Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 Got some prices back. £8k for taping and filling £11k for plastering Both very reputable which the joiners (whom I know and trust). At 37% more expensive I will likely go with taping and filling, I did want plastering but taping and filling is the standard in Scotland a the guys doing it come highly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 On 14/11/2022 at 00:16, SuperJohnG said: Saying that taping and filling around £6.50m2. Approx £15m2 for plastering. Is that including materials? I am getting my house boarded out next week, and skim to follow with the following labour rates, with me getting all materials to site. Tacking - £3m2 Dabbing - £4m2 Acoustic Insulation - £1.50m2 Skim - £6m2 I have about 330m2 to do and my rough overall costings is about £7.5k for it all including materials. For the skimming and materials (multifinish, beading, tape) onto the boards i think its comes to about £9m2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonner Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Seem like low prices although I am not sure what tacking is? Also the area seems quite small, is that the whole house? I am paying £13.50/m2 labour only for board and skim (including taping and beading). Walls and ceiling area is approx 1000m2 (floor area 280m2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 34 minutes ago, Bonner said: Seem like low prices although I am not sure what tacking is? Also the area seems quite small, is that the whole house? I am paying £13.50/m2 labour only for board and skim (including taping and beading). Walls and ceiling area is approx 1000m2 (floor area 280m2). Tacking is screwing boards to stud, I have included in my total costs but not the m2 getting boards into the house, which is extra. Its 160m2 floor area house, and does not include a full height atrium that will get done once I get a bird cage in there. Guys doing the skim are the same guy who rendering and the render is very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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