Comments requested on proposed design

[TomBee]

All,

 

These are the draft plans that I have worked up with my architect. I'd appreciate any suggestions you may have.

 

Some background to the house:

• The house will consist of my wife, three children, one MiL and me
• I worked from home a lot before it was cool, now it looks like it may never end!
• My wife loves the idea of an upstairs laundry room
• The plot is oriented on an E-W road; the front door is due North and the balcony is due South
• My aim is to build a passive house

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by TomBee

[Bozza]

Really like your design.  lovely.  The annex behind garage is a nice touch, as is the curved wall for office.  Lots of great stuff.

 

These are not criticisms, just a few thoughts / things you may have ruled out already as not needed for you.  More in case you sell it in future...even if stuff you don’t need yourself.

 

external access to plant/utility/plant room.  Perhaps a full height window door to side?  Would consider putting in plumbing for sink & washing machine there to future proof if for example someone wanted to change your upstairs laundry room into a bedroom.

swapping laundry/bed 4 around.  for waste pipe runs downstairs & add bath into upstairs shower room stealing that space from Bed 4/laundry room.  So you can have a full family bathroom.  If you don’t need a bath in master en-suite you could then remove that to provide you a bigger en-suite, or a recess for bed 2 Wardrobe making that room squarer.

Glazed door to dressing room in master. Hairdryers can be noisy.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TomBee]

A little more (to explain the layout). A lot of the older houses around my village have been extended over time but started their life as a farm cottage.

 

We've tried to create a farm cottage with barns alongside that have been attached together at some point so that we have the living space but without an imposing house. Here is a pretty elevation:

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by TomBee
Carnt speel

[Conor]

Your building shape, size and floor plan are eerily similar to ours... But I think ours is a bit smaller going by the number of rooms you have. We're also building to passive standard.

 

All very nice, here's a contrast with ours for a different perspective.

 

We've just moved our kitchen from the same location as yours to the "outshoot" / lounge.

Reason for this is better connectivity with the garden as we have a covered veranda area (pizza oven, BBQ, all that fun stuff) just off the bifolds, along with a kids play area. The space where the kitchen was will now be a dining / play area. Where you have your "reading room" we have essentially a the same... will have a folding partition door between it and dining/kitchen. Few informal sofas and 4.5m wide bifolds to the garden balcony (rear of house is 1.5-2.5m above garden) Also south facing.

 

We are going for an upstairs laundry... Basically sacraficing a bath in the family bathroom for a washing machine and drier.

 

We don't have the garage/ balcony as such yet as shown on the plans, as we've a full basement below the ground floor for utility, storage and guest suite.

 

(Old layout attached- stairs to basement now under main stairs, ground floor guest room now a TV room, and kitchen moved to outshoot, and walk in pantry gone as we've a cold room/cellar in the basement)

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Conor

[Ferdinand]

As a first cut that looks to me to be *extremely* competent. 

 

I make it about 300 sqm including garage, based on a 16ft garage length - is that about right?

 

My main thoughts would be:

 

1 - Overheating in those south facade rooms especially the "Reading" Room - quite shallow and will overheat if not thought through. Think about a sitting / eating veranda across the bottom of the "U".

 

(Why has the reading room got what looks like a very very very large curved Samsung Television at one end ? One might think it was a disguised cinema room. Does SWMBO know? ????)

 

If you want a projection / cinema room then I would make that end without big windows - it should be fine without lightwise.

 

2 - Storage space and maybe workshop type area downstairs.

3 - Adequate cooking faciities in the Annexe.

4 - Not entirely sure what the "link" is for. Can that space be used more effectively?

5 - Why not give bed three a tall narrow window to the "void", just for fun. Need to think through how to clean the other side.

6 - I think two things you need to consider are integration garden / house, and heat management.

7 - I wonder about a separate door where the cpd is (what's cpd?), which gives the annexe a separate entrance should you ever need it, and lets the interior being essentially divided. eg to rent out 

8 - The aesthetic reminds me of the way my dad used to design some years ago, which some people may not like, but it may be the drawing style of your architect which feels old school. Dad used to work on graphed tracing paper then use big felt tips to block in. When he was at Uni he used to actually use watercolours, and I posted some a couple of years ago here. I like the style; others may not.

 

So far so good imo.

 

Ferdinand

Edited August 31, 2020 by Ferdinand

[the_r_sole]

6 minutes ago, TomBee said:

A little more (to explain the layout). A lot of the older houses around my village have been extended over time but started their life as a farm cottage.

 

We've tried to create a farm cottage with barns alongside that have been attached together at some point so that we have the living space but without an imposing house. Here is pretty elevation:

 

 

 

I liked it until I saw the elevations... those rounded corners in the plan will get cut out pretty quickly!

What are you picturing happening in the reading room? If you've got a big open plan kitchen/dining/living room, it seems strange to have the reading room open to a double height space with open to the circulation, would you not want a "snug" there instead?

There's a huge amount of circulation on the ground floor, the hall is huge but hardly any natural light

[Temp]

I actually liked the elevations but first reaction was it will be expensive to build.  I agree ther is a lot of circulation space and effectively three separate living rooms on ground floor. None of which looks like a main/large living room.

 

 

[ultramods]

Here are my observations:

• External access to plant room/pantry?
• Internal access to the annex, thinking about when MIL is older.
• The reading room so close to the family/living area and with the void, do you need a snug somewhere, sometimes in an open plan house you do need a quiet space to get away from the noise.
• Bedroom 2 (difficult to know based on dimensions and bed position) would ensuite door be moved around the corner nearer the entrance door  give better room layout/space.
• Ensuites and bathrooms on first floor, consider roof windows if property is overlooked.
• If this isn't going to be forever house consider putting bath in first floor shower room in addition to the shower by stealing space from the laundry room.
• I'm not keen on the front elevation, if it was me I would be looking to make the house look like one barn or a series of connected barns. Would a farm house in the area really have had barns built so close to it?

 

 

[tonyshouse]

On shape, it is best to minimise surface area to floor are ratio, 

 

love the idea of PH, go for a lot lower energy use if you can, easy to build in more fabric insulation and airtightness, dead difficult and expensive to retrofit

 

i would do away with roof windows over the bed, very noisy even if 3g high heat loss to the sky too

 

i would advise a building physics model to inform window sizes/overheating dangers - worst are west facing windows, the last job I was a consultant on, west windows reduced in size greatly 75% from memory and a lot of built in shading happened to southern facade 

[ash_scotland88]

If it was me I'd be swapping around the laundry room and showerroom.

Laundry looks same size as those two bedrooms, bathroom and laundry could take up the same space as shower room and bed3, which would allow reconfiguration of those two room sizes.

[TomBee]

All,

 

Many thanks for those great comments. I wish I had been able to be online and talk them through in realtime as I've seen others do on here.

 

External door into Utility/Pantry

I like the idea. We toyed with it before and didn't put it in due to where the yard is and how we currently behave. The right answer would be to put it in there and change behaviours.

 

Plumbing for washer/dryer in pantry

This is supposed to be our forever house (or the house where I plan to die if I'm being provocative) but you can never tell what will happen. I agree

 

Improving the upstairs laundry

Yes, you're all right and when we saw Conor's layout we agreed that we should swap the bathroom and the laundry room. It would let me put a good family bathroom in and, as long as clothes can come out of the laundry room dried and ironed, I'll be happy.

 

Putting a door on the dressing room

Makes sense to me

 

Size

Yes, I think the house came in at about 240 sqm and the garage/annex add around 60

 

Is it a television?

No, our architect loves to add curves and that is supposed to be a bookcase! If the budget allows I plan to add a basement (trickier here in Cambs with such a high water table) which is where the cinema room and the gym will go.

 

Overheating

That really is a concern and I'm lobbying my architect to model this in PHPP for us. I know he has designed in eyebrows for the south-facing downstairs windows and a good roof overhang for the first floor.

 

Storage space and maybe workshop type area downstairs.

That's all staying in the yard. I promised.

 

Adequate cooking faciities in the Annexe.

Agreed. MiL would be happy with just a microwave I think but I'll be in there (assuming I live that long) and love to cook

 

The "link"

We foresee a difficult time with planners so we've tried to make the house fit in more with what is built locally. The 'link' is the supposed link between a farmhouse and an extended barn.

 

Why not give bed three a tall narrow window to the "void", just for fun.

Really nice idea but, as you said, it does need some thought about using the space inside the bedroom.

 

I wonder about a separate door where the cpd is (what's cpd?), which gives the annexe a separate entrance should you ever need it, and lets the interior being essentially divided. eg to rent out 

Possible. That part would be outside the thermal envelope of the passive house so that's a change we could make later without affecting airtightness. cpd is a cupboard.

 

Aesthetic

I suspect my architect is from the old school as well!

 

What are you picturing happening in the reading room?

That's evolving every time we speak about it! My wife and I are avid readers and the initial plan was to have a little reading area for us both. This has evolved as lots of glass was added and a void added above so it feels like the public area of a library now! I think the space can be split into a more secluded reading area and a playroom for the boys that can be seen from the kitchen (revised plan attached)

 

the hall is huge but hardly any natural light

Agreed. The revised reading room should allow more light through from the southern aspect

 

it will be expensive to build

Sadly I think you're right. Part of that is because my local council seem to shy away from large cubes (that would suit me so much more).

 

Would a farm house in the area really have had barns built so close to it?

No, but a lot are built so that the corners of the house and barn are very close - an extended barn would almost meet the gable end of the house. Maybe an L-shaped barn would work better - our next stage is pre-application advice from the council so we'll know soon(ish)!

 

i would do away with roof windows over the bed

Interesting. I know the current rooflight we have is noisy but I assumed that was because it was old and ratty and that new 3g ones would be different. Thanks.

 

Again, thanks for your time.

 

Tom.

 

 

 

[ProDave]

Plant / Pantry is not a compatible mix.  Plant gets hot, pantry needs to be cool.  Make them separate rooms somehow.

 

I would try and join the annex somehow without having to go outside.

 

I personally would not want the laundry upstairs.  Have you tried carrying a washing machine upstairs?  Make sure you double up on the joists (or more) to try and stop the floor drumming so much and being noisy throughout the whole house.

 

 

[TomBee]

45 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Plant / Pantry is not a compatible mix.  Plant gets hot, pantry needs to be cool.  Make them separate rooms somehow.

 

It isn't. In practice this room will be for the house gubbins and those kitchen items I don't want out on the worktop (slow cooker, food processor, fondue set, etc). Most of the fresh food will only come in when it's needed.

 

45 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I would try and join the annex somehow without having to go outside.

 

We had this in the first iterations of the plan but we reduced the size of the annex and we lost that. I'll try to bring it back.

 

45 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I personally would not want the laundry upstairs.  Have you tried carrying a washing machine upstairs?  Make sure you double up on the joists (or more) to try and stop the floor drumming so much and being noisy throughout the whole house.

 

Good advice. I've carried them up into blocks of flats and it's not something I enjoy doing alone! It's one of the reasons I'm leaning toward an ICF build to minimise vibration in the external walls.

Edited September 1, 2020 by TomBee

[Ferdinand]

An architect with a personal supply of curved books.

 

Cool ?.

[the_r_sole]

I still really struggle with the elevations, there doesn't seem to be any rationale behind it? I get that they/you want to make it look like something that has grown over time but it looks a bit like a 70's wimpy box with a 70's garage on one side and i'm not even sure what the other side is doing...

The annex looks strange on the rear, but the rest is at least looking a bit more tied together. There's zero kerb appeal or hints of what's happening at the rear of the house, does it sit on a street? what's the approach into the house like?

The lobby between the garage and the house is doing nothing, that's just floor area and complication to the build, you could easily walk through the garage and wipe something like 10m2 off the floor area, and why have a different height of roof over the garage and over the annex? it's just adding complication to the roofline?

You've got at least 4 different roof pitches and finishes in there too,  i think it needs paired back a bit, simplification isn't the enemy of aesthetic but you need to have a common thread through all the building elements...

(I also don't think you need, or necessarily want, to have the full kitchen open to the hall/void, is there any advantage of being able to see into the kitchen from the hall? I would be tempted to have some wall there so the kitchen isn't the first thing you see coming into the house)

I really don't mean or want to sound harsh as it's a pretty interesting plan and house, I just think you could tweak it to be much nicer to live with..)

[TomBee]

 53 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

I really don't mean or want to sound harsh as it's a pretty interesting plan and house, I just think you could tweak it to be much nicer to live with..)

 

Please, you don't sound at all harsh. I wouldn't have posted this if I didn't want that constructive dialogue that can make the house a better place to live.

 

53 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

I still really struggle with the elevations, there doesn't seem to be any rationale behind it? I get that they/you want to make it look like something that has grown over time but it looks a bit like a 70's wimpy box with a 70's garage on one side and i'm not even sure what the other side is doing...

The annex looks strange on the rear, but the rest is at least looking a bit more tied together. There's zero kerb appeal or hints of what's happening at the rear of the house, does it sit on a street? what's the approach into the house like?

 

It's on the road out of a small farming village on the edge of the fens. The houses are nearly all singly-built and most of them belonged to a farm worker originally. What we've unwittingly come up with feels similar to the connected farm concept (which is more New England than Old England) but the house itself I wanted something akin to the first picture (same lane but taken in 1942).

 

53 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

(I also don't think you need, or necessarily want, to have the full kitchen open to the hall/void, is there any advantage of being able to see into the kitchen from the hall? I would be tempted to have some wall there so the kitchen isn't the first thing you see coming into the house)

I really don't mean or want to sound harsh as it's a pretty interesting plan and house, I just think you could tweak it to be much nicer to live with..)

 

What we do want from that space is something that will impress. My instinct is to make the playroom/reading room space into the dining room and have a larger lounge. We've tried to avoid you seeing the whole house from the door but when you come in a little further and pass the office wall you can appreciate the whole space; that appeals to me.

 

[the_r_sole]

I understand the concept of the elevations - I just don't think it's quite there yet! proportion and detail is the key to getting the elevations right, the photo posted has a different proportion on the front, missed the chimney detail and the porch pictured is something more substantial. The one pictured looks more rectangular in plan, whereas yours appears more square, that changes the proportion of roof to wall etc away from the traditional towards a house builder attempt at efficient floor plans with a bit of a look...But I think it's the additions that are the main offenders, the scale and proportions of those don't read well, especially with the flat roof junctions, is there any reason they aren't pitched? would give you a much more robust set of details...

[Mr Punter]

There is a lot of glazing and exposed wall perimeter for a passivhaus. It does not look like it has been designed to the standard and it will be very difficult to try to make it work later.

 

The rooms look OK but overall I am not that keen on the design.  A lot of work is needed on the elevations.

[TomBee]

58 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

 is there any reason they aren't pitched? would give you a much more robust set of details...

 

No particular reason they aren't pitched aside from the fear that it would add more expense to the build. How do you think it would improve the look?

[TomBee]

Tha

59 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

There is a lot of glazing and exposed wall perimeter for a passivhaus. It does not look like it has been designed to the standard and it will be very difficult to try to make it work later.

 

That's one of the goals that's quite important to me personally. I'll lobby even harder for PHPP modelling and find offenders we need to change before anything is set in stone.

[Conor]

7 minutes ago, TomBee said:

 

That's one of the goals that's quite important to me personally. I'll lobby even harder for PHPP modelling and find offenders we need to change before anything is set in stone.

 

Definitely. We did the PHPP as soon as we'd agreed the design and before we submitted planning. It flagged overheating issues - now mitigated by solar control glass, a bris Soleil and mvhr with summer bypass. I think you'll be ok as you don't seem to have any more glazing than us.

[Ferdinand]

21 minutes ago, TomBee said:

Tha

 

That's one of the goals that's quite important to me personally. I'll lobby even harder for PHPP modelling and find offenders we need to change before anything is set in stone.

 

If you are the client, you should perhaps be instructing not lobbying.