soapstar Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Hello Folks, So its slowly getting to the stage where we need to decide on our windows! One area which we have been banging heads over was what arrangement we wish to have with our large gable end window which incorporates the ground floor living room and upstairs master bedroom. As per building regulations we are aware that every 'habitable' room is required to have a means of escape. In our case for our master bedroom the only means of escape appears to be the gable window which is comprised of 5 panes, therefore one or more will have to be tilt/turn windows. This is something we are trying to avoid as it will add a certain 'bulkiness' to the gable window to incorporate the mechanism which tilt/turns have. However after further investigation into our building controls policy they state 'Escape windows are not necessary from rooms where there are alternative routes from the room to circulation areas or other rooms' - therefore given our master bedroom leads to an en-suite wardrobe then onto a bathroom which has a tilt/turn window suitable size for an escape window could this possible be an alternative option opposed to using the gable window as fire egress? I have put together a very basic diagram (attached) to show our layout, apologies for the basic drawing however hopefully it shows everything! Would really appreciate any input or advice. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 If there are no loo or sink under the windows Or doors between you should be ok We have the same layout while there is no door between the DR Ana BR There is on the US BC told us we could still be cut off from that window But I’d check with your BC as they are not always consistent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, nod said: check with your BC as they are not always consistent ain’t that the truth ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundtuit Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 We use the window in the en-suite dressing room as the fire escape to avoid having to set a roof window low enough to meet regs. No door between bedroom and dressing room though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Talk to your BC My thoughts are protect the "escape corridor" by making it a fire proof enclosure, i.e. fire rated ceilings below, fire rated wall to landing etc. And hang a hammer on a chain next to the gable window so if all else fails you can get out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapstar Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, nod said: If there are no loo or sink under the windows Or doors between you should be ok We have the same layout while there is no door between the DR Ana BR There is on the US BC told us we could still be cut off from that window But I’d check with your BC as they are not always consistent Thanks. Just to clarify we have a another bedroom below the en-suite bathroom with an escape tilt/turn directly below. Sorry can I ask what you are referring to as the DR, BR and US? ? Perhaps if we remove the door into the en-suite wardrobe we may get away with it...I would try anything to stop having a lump of a door on the top gable window! Edited July 9, 2020 by soapstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, soapstar said: Thanks. Just to clarify we have a another bedroom below the en-suite bathroom with an escape tilt/turn directly below. Sorry can I ask what you are referring to as the DR, BR and US? ? Perhaps if we remove the door into the en-suite wardrobe we may get away with it...I would try anything to stop having a lump of a door on the top gable window! Dressing room/wardrobe, Bedroom and Upstairs Landing maybe? Btw, Building Control would not allow you to utilise an escape window in which you’d have to access via a dressing room and en-suite. You’re also not allowed to have a door between Bedrooms and Dressing rooms as a DR is considered to be habitable and without a window, it’s escape would be through an ‘access’ room as the DR would be an ‘inner’ room. If the Bedroom cannot be provided with an escape window, your other option is to provide a protected staircase. Just out of interest, how will the Bedroom meet the ventilation requirements as per AD F? Edited July 9, 2020 by DevilDamo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, soapstar said: Thanks. Just to clarify we have a another bedroom below the en-suite bathroom with an escape tilt/turn directly below. Sorry can I ask what you are referring to as the DR, BR and US? ? Perhaps if we remove the door into the en-suite wardrobe we may get away with it...I would try anything to stop having a lump of a door on the top gable window! Sorry typing on the go this morning Dressing Room Bath Room The reason I say Building Control and Vary Wildly We had an issue with the drains on our build Hardly any cover next to the house One said we should drop the Treatment plant outlet The other said it seems a bit extreme and the drains are on a walkway so unlikely to get damaged I think common sense can sometimes chip in Usually with the more experienced BC Dave makes a good point in that you could build the a fire compartment to allow access to The Bathroom to remain clear Cheap fix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapstar Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 23 hours ago, DevilDamo said: Dressing room/wardrobe, Bedroom and Upstairs Landing maybe? Btw, Building Control would not allow you to utilise an escape window in which you’d have to access via a dressing room and en-suite. You’re also not allowed to have a door between Bedrooms and Dressing rooms as a DR is considered to be habitable and without a window, it’s escape would be through an ‘access’ room as the DR would be an ‘inner’ room. If the Bedroom cannot be provided with an escape window, your other option is to provide a protected staircase. Just out of interest, how will the Bedroom meet the ventilation requirements as per AD F? Our bedroom will have a double Velux window. As for the door into the en-suite wardrobe this has already been approved by BC, and we have no windows in this room! Having looked further into this it would seem BC will not allow us to use the bathroom as a fire escape, unfortunate but it’s for good reason I guess. This would leave us to decide what we have in regards to a fire escape on our gable window from our bedroom. I am thinking one tilt/turn window in the centre of the 5 panes? We would obviously need a barrier of some sort. Anyone who has any arrangement like this is it would be fantastic to see some examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Can you not accommodate an escape window on either of the other walls in the bedroom? If you've got a big arrangement of windows, having a single opener will always look strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapstar Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, the_r_sole said: Can you not accommodate an escape window on either of the other walls in the bedroom? If you've got a big arrangement of windows, having a single opener will always look strange No as we are building a 1.5 story. In this case it would need to be a Velux to floor window which I’m not keen on to be honest! It’s looking like we have no option but to have the one tilt/turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 For any window you have and are proposing to be used for escape purposes, just make sure it complies with the escape requirements, i.e. max 1.1m above floor level, min. opening area of 0.33sq.m with a min. dimensions of 450 x 450mm, etc... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 On the subject of escape windows, I found my particular window supplier (Ideal Combi) was well clued-up on the requirements. I was able to simply say to them that I wanted the smallest compliant opening section and they specified it, including taking account of the angle to which the window would open. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapstar Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) Given we dont seem to have the option of not having a fire escape window on our gable end window I am a little concerned at how its going to look being PVC windows. I have been informed these will need to be re-enforced to strengthen the windows - this will inevitably add to the sight lines being somewhat reduced being PCV. We are planning on having the bottom centre pane an opening patio door with a tilt/turn either side. Upstairs there will be two tilt/turns opposite to the ones below. Given aluminium windows are considered stronger would it be a silly idea to have aluminium only for the gable end window and the rest of the house PVC? Anyone done this or know of any houses like this? Edited July 14, 2020 by soapstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 How about a more contemporary design. These from Denmark so check standards. https://idealcombi.com/windows/contemporary-windows/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 On 11/07/2020 at 14:09, Dreadnaught said: On the subject of escape windows, I found my particular window supplier (Ideal Combi) was well clued-up on the requirements. I was able to simply say to them that I wanted the smallest compliant opening section and they specified it, including taking account of the angle to which the window would open. Ha just spotted it's the same company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapstar Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 21 minutes ago, Temp said: How about a more contemporary design. These from Denmark so check standards. https://idealcombi.com/windows/contemporary-windows/ They do look particularly nice, might give them a shout and ask current lead times etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapstar Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 As time has passed we have now got our windows installed but still haven't decided on our 'escape plans' ? As per our design (drawing attached in original post) we went with tilt/turns on the 2nd/4th windows, with the 1st,3rd,5th being fixed frames. Now our dilemma is trying to figure out how to incorporate a safety barrier on the top floor - originally the barrier was going to be internal as we were going to have outward opening doors however I decided against this as i think it looks odd having doors on the top floor which will never be used (hopefully) and cant be used for ventilation etc like a normal tilt/turn. This brings up the issue of where our barrier will now go given tilt/turns obviously swing inwards opposed to outwards, meaning our barrier doesn't look like it can be on the inside as you wouldn't be able to open the window fully to escape. I really do not like external barriers however it looks like we have no choice in the matter. UNLESS! Someone is creative enough to suggest a workaround for having the barrier internally? Wild idea but could you possibly have a gate (like a toddler gate) in the bedroom to open to allow the tilt/turn to fully open? Tilting shouldn't be a problem...crazy idea I know but I am thinking out of the box here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Cable restrictors are used on hotel windows and high office windows. They don’t allow the window to fully open unless removed for fire egress. Option ..? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapstar Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 hours ago, PeterW said: Cable restrictors are used on hotel windows and high office windows. They don’t allow the window to fully open unless removed for fire egress. Option ..? Nice idea @PeterW! I feel Building Control would need quite a bit of persuading to allow this to conform, although from what I hear it depends on the day in most cases! That would solve all of issues if this was allowed, anyone used these for domestic purposes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapstar Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 'Lockable handles or restrictors, which can only be released by removable keys or other tools, should not be fitted to window opening sections for escape or rescue.' Hmm doesn't look good from a quick look at the building regs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 But what about ones that can be released without tools ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Are the opening windows the IdealCombi tilt / turns? Do you need to turn the key to get the window into turn mode? If so, they will not be suitable and I do not think they can be easily adapted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Is the staircase open to the rooms below or does it lead to a hallway, with doors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapstar Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Mr Punter said: Are the opening windows the IdealCombi tilt / turns? Do you need to turn the key to get the window into turn mode? If so, they will not be suitable and I do not think they can be easily adapted. They would not need a key to get them to turn 5 hours ago, Mr Punter said: Is the staircase open to the rooms below or does it lead to a hallway, with doors? Bedroom door leads out into the landing which is open right down the stairs, into the hallway with doors for ground floor bedrooms, living room, kitchen and the front door (although you would have to open the vestibule door) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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