Regularised timber

[Russell griffiths]

Go to a timber merchants, not builders merchants

I got mine from a roof truss company. 

[Alexphd1]

The first timber we got supplied and delivered by local build merchant where also as you describe. Speaking to a local joiner he laughed when we was telling him about it, he hands pick all the straight timber and leaves the banana wood on top.... sounded like the build merchant just off loaded the shite of the top to us! 

I like the look of that stuff Russel speaks off.

[Vijay]

55 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Go to a timber merchants, not builders merchants

I got mine from a roof truss company. 

 

You mean for the Kerto boards?

 

45 minutes ago, Alexphd1 said:

The first timber we got supplied and delivered by local build merchant where also as you describe. Speaking to a local joiner he laughed when we was telling him about it, he hands pick all the straight timber and leaves the banana wood on top.... sounded like the build merchant just off loaded the shite of the top to us! 

I like the look of that stuff Russel speaks off.

 

I don't think I got the crap as they weren't twisted when they were delivered, they've twisted in the last 2 weeks. I could use slightly warped/banana'd but definitely not twisted.

 

[Vijay]

Right another idea from some of your posts. Could I make up my own sort of laminate boards from ply or OSB (I'd prefer OSB as I hate ply with a passion). I need to make a board up of approx 300 x 50, so I'm wondering if I could glue/screw 2 x 18mm and an 11 or 15mm board, giving me either a 48 or 51mm thick board (which I could then rip down or rip the sheets down first to 300's).

 

If that idea is ok for a pole plate mounted mounted into the Polarwall ICF (I'll call them tomorrow too), could the DIY laminate idea be used for the walls plates (cut down to 150 x 48/51mm) to support my attic trusses?

 

Looking at pics of the Kerto boards, they look like laminated ply to what ever dimensions you require?

Edited May 27, 2020 by Vijay

[scottishjohn]

2 hours ago, Alexphd1 said:

It has gotten a bit of topic on how from how to straighten /prevent 6x2 timber from twisting to installing timber plates for 1st floor icf.

 

@scottishjohn it would be a lot of work to remove beams and replace as you mention. This is a link on what we done (method 1)  https://www.vancouvericf.com/nudura/technicalDetailsFloors.php with fixing the timber and pouring the concrete.

 

 

 

Ok got it -wood is fixed to the inbuilt furring strips which will take the weight of the wood 

Iwas imagining the bolts just suported in the poly block itself-

[Vijay]

Polarwall is slightly different, it's a panel system that uses H rails, the ICF boards sit into. Basically I would replace an ICF board with timber and that would act as the pole plate.

 

This is from another post where you can see the timber board in place

 

[Russell griffiths]

So if you need a 300mm deep plate, you need to go and buy 300x 47 kerto, I was going to suggest making it out of 25mm ply but by the time you have brought 25mm ply and glue you might as well buy the proper thing. 

Do not use osb. 

Sorry to be harsh but just go and get the right thing, trying to make a 300 board out of 2x 150 is a recipe for a mess, 

most roof truss manufactures will stock it or your floor joist maker. 

 

Use the 150 for strong backs in your floor joists when you do them, stack it up and weigh them down. 

 

You could just just buy some 300x 47 timber but I suspect in this weather it will warp unless you can find some already dry stuff. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Russell griffiths

[Gone West]

@Vijay It's a tough lesson I learnt early on in my build. It doesn't matter whether it's C16, C24, regularised or sawn, it's all crap. The amount I sent back was incredible. Sometimes they didn't even bother to collect it. If I had to use cut timber then I didn't buy it until the day it was going to be used and then fitted it straight away. Engineered timber is so much better.

[ProDave]

I hate buying timber.  It does not matter if you go to the timber merchant yourself and pick out the straightest, nicest lengths, it WILL still warp when you take it somewhere else.

 

To try and prevent that you can store it all on a flat surface with heavy objects on it to hold it straight and true.  That just delays it's tendancy to warp a bit longer.

[Oz07]

I buy studding a week of so before then sort it when I use. Bananas get used for noggins and bows get used for top or some plate or against walls where I can straighten.

I do think treated is worse for changing 

[Mr Punter]

6 hours ago, Vijay said:

Polarwall is slightly different, it's a panel system that uses H rails, the ICF boards sit into. Basically I would replace an ICF board with timber and that would act as the pole plate.

 

This is from another post where you can see the timber board in place

 

 

We used treated timber here and fixed the cheapo Screwfix Turbofix coach screws to the other side before fitting quick and easy self drilling with a decent impact driver.  Concrete locks it all in.

[Mr Punter]

I have seen studding with 20 degree twist over a 2.4 length.  Sometimes it is so bad even short off-cuts are useless.

[Ferdinand]

The best I have been able to do is that my Wickes has an I pillar next to the studding so I can compare every one both ways.

 

Still moves, mind.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Vijay]

10 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

So if you need a 300mm deep plate, you need to go and buy 300x 47 kerto, I was going to suggest making it out of 25mm ply but by the time you have brought 25mm ply and glue you might as well buy the proper thing. 

Do not use osb. 

Sorry to be harsh but just go and get the right thing, trying to make a 300 board out of 2x 150 is a recipe for a mess, 

most roof truss manufactures will stock it or your floor joist maker. 

 

Use the 150 for strong backs in your floor joists when you do them, stack it up and weigh them down. 

 

You could just just buy some 300x 47 timber but I suspect in this weather it will warp unless you can find some already dry stuff. 

 

Had a chat with Polarwall today and he basically said get a refund on the timber and use 2 x 18mm ply ripped down and glued/screwed. He said Kero boards are great but expensive and way OTT for what's needed.

 

2 x 150's to make a 300 would have been no issue if they weren't twisted, I would have had no problem doing that.

 

Completely agree about buying 300 timbers, around £50 odd quid for a 4.8m length and probably have the same issues

[Vijay]

I haven't heard back from the BM yet but I'm gonna push for a refund. I don't really want to be stuck with 32 x 4.8m lengths of 6x2 if they stay twisted (even with them laid flat and weight on them)

 

So,  I'm gonna look at making the pole plates up in ply. Any suggestions on which ply to use? 

 

The issue I will still have is for the wall plates that the attic trusses will sit on. Are there other solutions apart from using 150 x 2 timbers? Worst case scenario is I can use threaded bar set into the ICF core when I pour the concrete, then wind the timber back into place if it has twisted?

[Russell griffiths]

The wall plates on top won’t be an issue 

just set your studs into the wet concrete and add your wall plate when the concrete has set, no need to have them onsite until your trusses turn up. 

Just mark up truss location so you don’t have a bolt where you have a truss. 

[Vijay]

13 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

The wall plates on top won’t be an issue 

just set your studs into the wet concrete and add your wall plate when the concrete has set, no need to have them onsite until your trusses turn up. 

Just mark up truss location so you don’t have a bolt where you have a truss. 

 

I've been told to set the plate/fixings onto the wet concrete. Surely it makes sense to do it that way rather than trying to get holes in the timbers in the right position later on??  

 

I see you point abut truss location

[Russell griffiths]

41 minutes ago, Vijay said:

 

I've been told to set the plate/fixings onto the wet concrete. Surely it makes sense to do it that way rather than trying to get holes in the timbers in the right position later on??  

 

I see you point abut truss location

There’s a thousand ways to skin a cat mate, if you think you will have time on pour day to set the wall plates then that’s fine. 

 

[Vijay]

36 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

There’s a thousand ways to skin a cat mate, if you think you will have time on pour day to set the wall plates then that’s fine. 

 

 

It'll only take 5 minutes lol  Seriously though, I know what you mean, but my plan is to have them all cut and ready to place in between the H rails. Screw holes will all be pre-drilled. I know on pour day I need manpower, better to have too many bodies than not enough. Should be at least 6 of us including Alan from Polarwall.

[Vijay]

Well that's the last time I pay my invoice before it's due. BM are trying to say it's my fault that the timbers have twisted and I should have reported it within 48 hours - after I'd used my crystal ball!

 

They've not asked how I've stored them, but blamed how I've stored them ?

 

Amex will happily deal with it as they are not fit for purpose if they haven't even survived 2 weeks

[PeterW]

On 11/06/2020 at 18:25, Vijay said:

BM are trying to say it's my fault that the timbers have twisted and I should have reported it within 48 hours

 

Seen that on a few things - I sent 6 sheets of PIR back as they were old and banana shaped (and colour) and the BM said no issue we will credit and replace.. then tried to send me 3 of them back as the replacements..! Timber is always stored outside and its the "odd" sizes that seem to have the problems - 9x2 seems to be fairly crap quality from my TP but 8x2 is fine... go figure..!

[Vijay]

I'm more annoyed at the fact they couldn't care less, I guess I expect more from them when there's an issue