Semi permanent ladder setup for a stairwell.

[epsilonGreedy]

I need to order a decent single section ladder for mid-build access to the upper floor. The ladder will be secured in place for +6 months and I am looking for tips on doing this properly.

 

My plan is to tie the ladder to the metal web joists 2/3rd of the way up and my brickie suggested securing the ladder base with a block of wood screwed into the concrete floor. Prior to insulation and ground floor screeding the height to first floor is 3.0m. A bit of trigonometry leads me to think a 4.5m ladder is ideal because that will project 1.4m above the first floor which will be convenient to grab when transitioning on and off the ladder. 

 

A bit of reading suggests 75 degree incline is optimal for a ladder leaning against a wall but for six months of regular access I wonder if 70 or 65 degrees is better?

 

p.s. I will be constructing a temporary safety stair well bannister this weekend.

 

 

[ProDave]

I found a Kwikstage scaffold staircase worked better, dead easy to lift materials up in stages

 

[Carrerahill]

6 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

I need to order a decent single section ladder for mid-build access to the upper floor. The ladder will be secured in place for +6 months and I am looking for tips on doing this properly.

 

My plan is to tie the ladder to the metal web joists 2/3rd of the way up and my brickie suggested securing the ladder base with a block of wood screwed into the concrete floor. Prior to insulation and ground floor screeding the height to first floor is 3.0m. A bit of trigonometry leads me to think a 4.5m ladder is ideal because that will project 1.4m above the first floor which will be convenient to grab when transitioning on and off the ladder. 

 

A bit of reading suggests 75 degree incline is optimal for a ladder leaning against a wall but for six months of regular access I wonder if 70 or 65 degrees is better?

 

p.s. I will be constructing a temporary safety stair well bannister this weekend.

 

 

Depending on what your situation is, what about a couple of 2x8's as stringers, and some 2x6/2x8 treads, gives you a cheap "stair" that will be safer and easier to use than a ladder. 

 

I've done quite a few semi-permanent stairs this way, only takes an hour or so to knock together if you just use blocks to support treads. Also means when you are done you can unscrew it all and have 2 pieces of 2x8 and pieces of 2x6 that can no doubt be used as noggins or something.

 

Think the last set I built, which are still in use were actually 2x6 stringers and 2x8 treads.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Carrerahill

[epsilonGreedy]

I am thinking of ordering 4.5m of this ladder: https://www.laddersukdirect.co.uk/ladders/heavy-duty-single-section-ladders/h9ss

 

They claim the D shaped runs are more comfortable.

[ProDave]

1 minute ago, Carrerahill said:

Depending on what your situation is, what about a couple of 2x8's as stringers, and some 2x6/2x8 treads, gives you a cheap "stair" that will be safer and easier to use than a ladder. 

 

I've done quite a few semi-permanent stairs this way, only takes an hour or so to knock together if you just use blocks to support treads. Also means when you are done you can unscrew it all and have 2 pieces of 2x8 and pieces of 2x6 that can no doubt be used as noggins or something.

Like the one I made for the garage roof at the last house

 

[Carrerahill]

Just now, epsilonGreedy said:

I am thinking of ordering 4.5m of this ladder: https://www.laddersukdirect.co.uk/ladders/heavy-duty-single-section-ladders/h9ss

 

They claim the D shaped runs are more comfortable.

Are you taking many materials up these?

[Carrerahill]

Just now, ProDave said:

Like the one I made for the garage roof at the last house

 

That's the boys!

You can then walk, carefully, down them normally rather than going down backwards too.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Carrerahill

[epsilonGreedy]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I found a Kwikstage scaffold staircase worked better, dead easy to lift materials up in stages

 

 

Hmm. Lifting materials is a concern with a plain old ladder setup. If the remainder of the build is very slow this ladder will get a lot of use.

 

We are not planning any fancy oak staircase so I might put in the final staircase earlier than the professionals recommend with an expectation it will need some polly filler in the dings before final painting.  

[nod]

11 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

I need to order a decent single section ladder for mid-build access to the upper floor. The ladder will be secured in place for +6 months and I am looking for tips on doing this properly.

 

My plan is to tie the ladder to the metal web joists 2/3rd of the way up and my brickie suggested securing the ladder base with a block of wood screwed into the concrete floor. Prior to insulation and ground floor screeding the height to first floor is 3.0m. A bit of trigonometry leads me to think a 4.5m ladder is ideal because that will project 1.4m above the first floor which will be convenient to grab when transitioning on and off the ladder. 

 

A bit of reading suggests 75 degree incline is optimal for a ladder leaning against a wall but for six months of regular access I wonder if 70 or 65 degrees is better?

 

p.s. I will be constructing a temporary safety stair well bannister this weekend.

 

 

Quite a few sites use these 

very light and easy to move 
Handrails detach 

[ProDave]

Howdens do a cheap straight staircase flight. I have never found a use for one as they only do one stock floor to floor height so have never been right for me, but would make a cheap temporary staircase.

[epsilonGreedy]

8 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

Depending on what your situation is, what about a couple of 2x8's as stringers, and some 2x6/2x8 treads, gives you a cheap "stair" that will be safer and easier to use than a ladder. 

 

I've done quite a few semi-permanent stairs this way, only takes an hour or so to knock together if you just use blocks to support treads. Also means when you are done you can unscrew it all and have 2 pieces of 2x8 and pieces of 2x6 that can no doubt be used as noggins or something.

 

 

This is a more interesting! Routing and serious carpentry lies outside my present skillset but blocks under the treads sounds doable.

 

Hmm an option to explore once the floor is up to screeded FFL... unless I dismount it for the screeding operation and then refit it trimmed to the new floor level.

[epsilonGreedy]

13 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

Are you taking many materials up these?

 

 

I thought so but anticipate you will now advise this is not such a good idea. I have 4 scaffold planks and mid size trestles that could be used for material lifting.

 

In terms of materials, I assume plasterboard is the main headache? There might be a few feature victorian wrought iron radiators.

 

 

[epsilonGreedy]

17 minutes ago, nod said:

Quite a few sites use these 

very light and easy to move 
Handrails detach 

 

 

Looks ideal though a bit pricey for a one-off self build at over £500.

 

https://www.ladders-999.co.uk/stairs-spirals?limit=all

 

Given the feedback so far I will delay ordering the metal metal ladder and will price up a semi steep wood diy staircase.

[epsilonGreedy]

29 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

That's the boys!

You can then walk, carefully, down them normally rather than going down backwards too.

 

 

@ProDaveis a yachtsman, so going backwards down a companionway ladder is natural to him. 

[Carrerahill]

19 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

This is a more interesting! Routing and serious carpentry lies outside my present skillset but blocks under the treads sounds doable.

 

Hmm an option to explore once the floor is up to screeded FFL... unless I dismount it for the screeding operation and then refit it trimmed to the new floor level.

I assume you will have some timber on site you can use, maybe even plenty spares of off-cuts that can be made into treads?

 

As for laying out the stair it is not bad, the simplest way to do it is to lay the stringer material on-site exactly how you want it to sit, go for a nice pitch that is safe and easy, put it in place, then use a block to mark the floor cut, cut that then put it back in position and mark the top cut, that is now your template for the other stringer.

 

Measure FFL to FFL and divide it by about 175 to get you going, round that up to the next full number and that will be your no. of treads minus the last one which is technically the next floor, divide your FFL to FFL by that no. you came up with and make sure it is within 150-220mm for a decent stair.

 

Subtract from your rise height the thickness of your material, so say 45-50mm, you can then measure up that distance parallel to your floor and mark it, that is where your first block sits, then measure off that line for the rest, remember that your measurement should be from top of tread to top of tread so always remember your material thickness. 

 

The other way to do it is to use a steel square with inch markings on it, you can work out your pitch ratio, then use your square sitting at the pitch ratio on the timber to mark your tread positions super quickly. This legendary man explains it clearly:

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Carrerahill

[Pocster]

I just bought a cheap staircase ; about £130 

[PeterW]

Like a few others say - 8” stringers and 6” steps, just screwed with 80mm screws both sides. Scrap board as a landing and concrete screwed to the wall. 
 

 

 

Was there for about 18 months and made life so much easier. Think we even sanded the handrails .... 

[Pete]

8 x 2 strings and 6 x 2 steps. Bought materials, £60, took me and my son an hour to knock up and has been up in place for the entire build. Even took the weight of two of us and my bath (bloody heavy) going up it. Not worth wasting money and effort sourcing one when you can build it for that price IMO

[Onoff]

If you want to get a bit more technical doesn't take long to knock up a jig to route slots into your stringers;

 

 

 

 

[LA3222]

I paid just under £200 for some temporary stairs and butchered them to suit my needs. They will be there for a couple of years so I consider it to be value for money - sod using a ladder for that long and trying to wrestle materials upstairs, it's a false economy.

 

I had enough timber to make my own but why bother. It's not a lot of cash wheras it would take me a fair bit of time to do - time which could be better spent elsewhere. 

 

Just shy of 2.9m floor to floor. The timber framers installed a crash deck for their safety, I cut a hole through it and then knocked a hand rail up.

 

 

[epsilonGreedy]

18 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

I paid just under £200 for some temporary stairs and butchered them to suit my needs. They will be there for a couple of years so I consider it to be value for money -

 

 

£200 for a 2 year interim option! Makes sense to me, was this a special eBay purchase?

[joe90]

Knock one up from scaffold planks, done it a few times and works great.

[LA3222]

1 hour ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

£200 for a 2 year interim option! Makes sense to me, was this a special eBay purchase?

I think I found them on ebay but then just went through their website to order as they had different sizes available. 

 

A lot on here will say make your own, which is perfectly doable - it all come down to how you want to utilise your time vs trying to save money.  For me, paying and moving onto the next task quicker made more sense - I've got a lot to do, making temporary stairs didn't need adding to the list!!

[JFDIY]

Prior to lockdown you could get a straight set of stairs from Travis Perkins or build base for about £140. If memory serves these are based on 2400mm (12 treads @ 200mm rise) .

 

To get your extra height set the top step 200mm below top floor surface then the extra 400mm can be found by making a two step box at the base of the stairs or fixing some timber to the stringers of the stairs to extend them and then just having a couple of treads to make.

 

Another option is look for some scaffold stair treads, I've seen them for £10 each on eBay, some poles and clamps and you're away.

[Onoff]

I just searched "staircase" on Gumtree putting in "Lincolnshire" as the area. Came up with things like this:

 

Loft ladder for £40 in Huntington:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/pine-stairs-loft-ladder-staircase-used/1373504498?

 

&

 

Free metal staircase:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/fire-escape-staircase/1373281482?

 

Htf Worcester is Lincolnshire, but if you have transport and a couple of mates freebies like this can be great.

 

I find with Gumtree that "stair case" and "staircase" brings up different results.

 

Always worth a look though.