Moonshine Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 A puzzling conundrum for a Friday morning, how to ventilate a land locked WC as below The issue is that ventilation straight through the external wall is on to someones else's land, as the external wall is the boundary, i guess this is out, also the space above the window is limited (240mm from top of window to ceiling level), as below, and there would be issues with the window lintel / cavity tray. Space to both sides of the window are limited to about 200mm. In these areas and side of the house the joists are going to run along the lines of sections A-A, B-B, and C-C, so if it was going in the floor joists there will be a lot of joists to go through to get it out of either the study or the living, and tbh i don't really want to go through the study as that it to the front of the house. It could go below ceiling level, but would have to go in some horrible boxed in section. I am just wondering if could go through some S bend of vents in smaller boxed in section in the study and master suite above, exiting to the front of the house. but at a low level. It all seems very convoluted and i seem to be missing some simple solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 If the foundations are not in, underground to the front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said: If the foundations are not in, underground to the front? I never thought that going downwards could be a solution, however does it still have to go to the front? Under the block and beam is a 150mm ventilated void via air bricks on the external sub walls, could it be ventilated just to that void? Again i don't know if that is even allowed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, Moonshine said: The issue is that ventilation straight through the external wall is on to someones else's land, as the external wall is the boundary, i guess this is out is this the case? I can see why a boiler vent could not do this but a toilet fan? Best ask your BCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 I may have missed something but are you not installing mvhr ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Cpd said: I may have missed something but are you not installing mvhr ? i am or may not do, currently looking at conventional ventilation, and seeing how things work out. 7 minutes ago, joe90 said: is this the case? I can see why a boiler vent could not do this but a toilet fan? Best ask your BCO. i could not find a definitive answer, if it was o.k to do this the exterior wall in the WC is cluttered above window height, so probably can't go through there. An alternative is to take the vent through the internal wall to the study in a boxed in section, and extract to the site through that wall, though you would be left with a ugly boxed in 'square' in the corner of the room. I suppose this could be floor void above and you would only have to take the vent through one or two joists (I-joists) before it exits with the run of the joists. Edited February 21, 2020 by Moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Moonshine said: I suppose this could be floor void above and you would only have to take the vent through one or two joists before it exits with the run of the joists. ha, I was about to post about the floor void!. If using i joists there IS a limit on hole size and location near the ends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, joe90 said: If using i joists there IS a limit on hole size and location near the ends. Good shout, the JJI joist technical manual has this (L) at about 1000mm for a 100mm diameter hole (4m span / 325mm joist). Looks like if the vent can go out on to someone else property this will be the simplest solution, to go though the joists and vent offset from the WC wall itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 What is above this WC? I am thinking ceiling and to a ventilation tile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: What is above this WC? I am thinking ceiling and to a ventilation tile. Master suite and flat roof (i want to minimise flat roof penetrations) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) Perhaps a built in unit / dressing table / wardrobe / srorage ottoman or window seat in the Master Suite to hide it within, depending on what is above it on plan. Edited February 21, 2020 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Can you not just ring your BCO and ask him?, the fan would protrude less than 30mm, less than your roof overhang/facia/guttering (I guess?). This would be the simplest solution. If you have to go through ceiling void, fan set 1m from wall in ceiling (over toilet) and run flexi through joists to outside (more work than solution 1). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Ask the neighbour? I installed a huge extract fan in the wall of the sailing club that vented into a gap between it and the house next door. The strip of land was owned by the house, not the club but the house owner agreed to the vent being there and for me to access their land to fit it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, joe90 said: Can you not just ring your BCO and ask him?, the fan would protrude less than 30mm, less than your roof overhang/facia/guttering (I guess?). This would be the simplest solution. If you have to go through ceiling void, fan set 1m from wall in ceiling (over toilet) and run flexi through joists to outside (more work than solution 1). Spoken with them and from a building regs point of view they would be o.k with it, but they did point out that i maybe more of a civil issue later on, and that the area around the vent would have to be kept free. In this case i am the neighbour, so i would be fine with it, but would have to get things in place legally for an subsequent owner of the house(s), same with any foundation footings that were over the boundary line. I it looks like the simplest way to go out of the WC wall can happen but in the joist void. Edited February 21, 2020 by Moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 That’s the way to go then, simples!, in a previous house I owned there was a clause in the deeds that the new build next door drains teed into mine by the boundary (to save £1000,s on sewer connection) and they have right of access to maintain ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, Moonshine said: i am or may not do, currently looking at conventional ventilation, and seeing how things work out. I was always sceptical about how necessary mvhr would be... always thought traditional ventilation would be fine..... however recently I have finished insulating a single bedroom and making it fully airtight, it’s a small room in roof so not spacious but it’s only me in there, anyway it has a velux with trickle vents and if these are not open at night it becomes very stuffy and the humidity rises, I have to make sure that the vents are open and that there is also a window open outside the room to get cross ventilation. I tried to see how well it would work with the door sealed and just the trickle vents open.,. It did not work and was still stuffy. It’s a right palaver remembering to opening vents at night and shut them in the morning and when it’s blowing a gale outside you can’t limit the size of the vent so it then costs a small fortune to keep the room at 16c..... and right now it’s blowing a gale outside And the vents need to be shut as it’s actually a loosing battle with the small room heater an the wind howling into the room... plus it’s really noisy when open in big winds. I can’t imagine what it would be like to keep a large house With multiple rooms properly ventilated without spending a random and probably large amount Of cash on heating and actually getting the ventilation right. Airtight houses are so very different from anything I am used to and I think airtight houses and mvhr are a marriage made in heaven. Having recently visited a build hubber with an airtight house with mvhr and experienced the lovely CLEAN air and stable room TEMPERATURES throughout the house I am now fully converted! Just saying..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, joe90 said: Can you not just ring your BCO and ask him?, the fan would protrude less than 30mm You could recess the outlet into the external brickwork so it was flush and therefore is on you land! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Cpd said: I am now fully converted! Just saying..... It might be worth a visit to one to see / feel, i have got a quote for a MVHR kit based on the house design (£2k standard / £2.5k premium + VAT) and i need to figure out how the house and my budget could accommodate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Seems like a reasonable price and in reality if this is a house your going to live in for a long time then you will recoup the cost through electricity savings and even if not the improvements in air quality alone I think would be worth it. If your doing DIY then there are plenty of people on the forum that have done it very cheaply and a whole wealth of knowledge at your finger tips. I will leave it at that for now as I don’t want to derail this thread and also sound like a preacher !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Can you not have a window mounted fan, as the window can be set into the wall a little. If the window is inward opening you could access the fan for servicing or replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Moonshine said: Master suite and flat roof (i want to minimise flat roof penetrations) wouldn,t worry --easy to seal that up in the roof build ,especially if going laid GRP just a 4-6"upstand of GRP round pipe and a hat on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJNewton Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 11 hours ago, Moonshine said: Good shout, the JJI joist technical manual has this (L) at about 1000mm for a 100mm diameter hole (4m span / 325mm joist). Looks like if the vent can go out on to someone else property this will be the simplest solution, to go though the joists and vent offset from the WC wall itself It sounds like you've got a solution now but for future reference the Simpson Strong-Tie I-Joist Hole Support can be used to allow huge holes (250mm width x full web height) to be cut to within 50mm of the joist support: They're around £25/pr (you need one for each side) so whilst not cheap they can be extremely handy if you don't have alternative options. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicatedave Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Our bathroom is almost exactly like your plan. We have an extractor connected to a plastic pipe that runs in the ceiling of the hall then turns right to find an outside wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now